Coffee Catchup 31st March with Dorothy Waide
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Topic: Coffee Catchup 31st March with Dorothy Waide
Posted By: skiltz
Subject: Coffee Catchup 31st March with Dorothy Waide
Date Posted: 31 March 2014 at 8:48am
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OHbaby! Coffee Catchup - March 31st 2014. Feel free to ask questions and Dorothy will reply when she can.
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Replies:
Posted By: Jellybean87
Date Posted: 31 March 2014 at 2:50pm
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Hi Dorothy it was lovely to meet you today, just a question, I didn't get an opportunity today to ask my son is 6 months old and continues to wake 2-3 times a night, he likes to be feed (BF) at these times and to be honest I do it because its the one thing that will get him to sleep (fast), should I be trying to settle him first each time? Also each time he wakes and he feeds he is feeding and not just suckling, he currently is on two meals a day, any other suggestions, should I be including protein in his diet?
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Posted By: Lynne119893
Date Posted: 31 March 2014 at 3:59pm
Hi Dorothy
My daughter is 11 weeks old and I was wondering what a reasonable amount of time is alright to let her settle and re settle having a cry, it only seems to be during the day as at night she goes down ok. Thanks
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Posted By: Louissa118984
Date Posted: 31 March 2014 at 4:44pm
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Hi Dorothy, My 18 week old won't settle without dummy but i want to get rid of it altogether. Normally I let her cry 5 mins and then put it in but could I use your cupping method instead at this point? (she is in cot not swaddled) And if so should i launch into cupping at first check in or would i be best to pick up burp 1st then leave another 5mins then start cupping? If she doesnt settle after 15mins what then? At night 15 mins can seem like a lifetime and that's when i find myself saying its easier to feed but if she wakes every 2-3 hours this is very tiring! Any tips? Also do i leave her nappy at night when its just a wee? Or change if she is awake?
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Posted By: naomif
Date Posted: 31 March 2014 at 7:50pm
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Hi Dorothy, it was lovely to meet you today. I want to say thanks so much for telling us that it is ok to cuddle our new babies. We did and it felt right for us, but we did face some criticism for it. I have a nearly 7 month old son and we have had issues with his morning nap for nearly a month now. He will usually wake after 20 -35 minutes, and he wakes happy. I do try resettling him but as far as he is concerned nap time is over. I leave him in the cot until the 1 hour mark as I had been told I should do this. Is this right to do? I have been putting him down after 1 ˝ hours awake time as he rubs his eyes and gets grizzly. Should I be trying to stretch this out? I do feed him to be sleep, and this is another issue that I will address once I have sorted his morning nap out. He usually goes down for about 2 hours at lunch, but often I think because he is so tired. We are currently feeding him 2 solids meals at lunch and dinner, and I will now introduce breakfast to see if that helps. Thanks so much.
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Posted By: Sarah141520
Date Posted: 31 March 2014 at 10:20pm
Hi Dorothy.
My daughter is 5 months on Friday. She currently sleeps 11-12 hours at night without waking. Has 3 naps a day but they are quite short. 1 1/4, 1 1/2, 45mins. Awake 2 hours between naps. Does this seem about right to you? Also, you mentioned having a "moving" nap - which nap would this be best suited to? I have read elsewhere that it is important to stay at home for the first nap of the day, but then the second nap is her longest & I feel it would be unbeneficial to be napping in the pram for this one as the quality always suffers, and the third nap is always a catnap. What would you suggest re: days at home vs. days out ratio? And which nap is dropped when they transition to two?
Any thoughts/advice would be welcomed. Cheers!
Sarah.
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Posted By: Katya141550
Date Posted: 01 April 2014 at 1:03pm
Hi Dorothy :) Thank you so much for a lovely catch up.
Our son Peter just turned 4 month. We BF most of the time and some times last feed (around 9p.m.) I give expressed milk or bottle. We like him to sleep through the night (10p.m. - 7a.m.) with one night feed. By now we had 4 nights like that during 2 weeks, worst night during this two weeks was with 7 awakings and 3 feeds (I don't feed him if it's less than 3 hours since last feed and trying to resettle).
During the day we aim for two - 2h sleeps and one 30-45min. Morning sleep usually happening 9-11a.m. When we not going out and almost always we manage to settle him and resettle him to make it 2h. Second sleep is more challenging I'm trying for 1-3p.m. And sometimes by 3p.m. I feed him, we put him in the pram and going for a walk because nothing else worked. Last sleep almost certainly in the pram, it's very hard to settle Peter any other way. To be honest I gave up at this stage and spend my energy on second sleep of the day as priority.
Settling: During the day we rock him in bassinet with muslin covering it to stop him looking around. If I'm lucky in the morning (never worked other day times) I can feed him to sleep and on 3 occasions for past month he slept without resettling. During last feed of the day 9p.m. I either feed him to sleep or use your method by letting him settle by himself and when he starts crying waiting for 5min then turn him towards the wall and cup him, which works from the first of second time around. During the night most of the time he is able to resettle himself after feed, occasionally I rock him. If it's too early for night feed I rock him when I resettle him for about 1-10min.
Also we put him to sleep in “Love to swaddle” sleeping bag with two hands zipped up and want to start using hands free wrap.
Our question is How do we get Peter to sleep through the night with one night feed?
Thank you again for opportunity to ask questions
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Posted By: vanmay
Date Posted: 01 April 2014 at 4:24pm
Heya Dorothy,
Thanks so much for your informative talk yesterday! was good catching up with other mums as well!
I have a 10wk old son and a 2 1/2 (almsost 3)yr old daughter; baby is fine - we have a very relaxed routine that works for both of us... but very different second time round than it was with our daughter.
She was fed to sleep (co-sleeping) until she was 2yrs, we then introduced her own cot and weaned her from BM(breast milk). She now sleeps in her own room but has replaced the BM with a bottle (of cows milk)She will have sometimes 2x 250mL before bed, then we sing to her and she goes to sleep (takes approx. 30-40mins). However she will often wake, sometimes 3-4 times during the night needing cuddles/blankets off etc etc etc. she is almost toilet trained, but still uses a nappy during the night. She has had no regression or increase in problems sleeping since baby.
Our question is: How can we get her to settle without using the bottle as a sleep-aid and without night waking, bearing in mind we also want her to be aiming towards a dry night with no nappy?
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Posted By: Tersia127409
Date Posted: 01 April 2014 at 5:30pm
Hi Dorothy,
Thanks for yesterday.
My three month old son currently goes down around 7.30 - 8/8.30pm and then wakes around the 2.30am to 3.30am mark - 4am if we are lucky. He then goes back down and wakes again at 6am and stays awake until about 8. He seems to hate taking naps during the day. On a good day he will have his three naps which vary from 30 minutes to 1.5 hours depending on what we are doing that day.
I haven't decided that 7.30 to 8 is his bed time it just generally works out that way. He is so cranky and getting to that overtired point that I have to put him down. How do I go about getting him to go to bed around say 9 so that he can sleep straight through until 6am. Also how long should he be napping for during each nap during the day? Should I be resettling him? I swaddle him at night in the "love to swaddle" and during the day I swaddle him with a swaddle blanket.
Also I have read that to get babies out of waking for the 3am feed you should decrease the milk supply so that eventually they are weaned off needing this feed. He is formula fed. Is this something I should be doing or will this just work itself out?
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Posted By: ktpainz
Date Posted: 01 April 2014 at 8:35pm
Hi Dorothy- thanks again for yesterday.
Our baby is 6 weeks old, bottle fed and swaddled for each sleep.
Night times seem to be ok for us (fingers crossed), she generally does 8-11pm, 12pm-4am and then 5am-7am ish. However the next 12 hours are a real struggle.
We have her bassinet in her room and shut the blinds for each day nap. I struggle to see her tired signs so have been putting her down between 45-60 mins after waking but she is always wide awake. I walk away and straight away she cries, with your method should I get her up straight away and commence cupping/shushing etc for 45 mins until she is in a deep sleep? Is it 'normal' that I need to do the 45 min routine for each day nap?
Thanks
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Posted By: Elizabeth133078
Date Posted: 02 April 2014 at 12:26pm
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Thanks oh baby and Dorothy for putting the morning together. My 12/13 week old sleeps roughly from 7pm until 6am with 1-2 feeds, the first between 1am-3:30am is his largest feed of the day. He naps roughly 3 times a day varying from 45 twice a day and sometimes a longer one when he's super tired. I usually force another sleep in the late afternoon by pram or front pack so he's not too tired to eat at last feed prior to bed. If I force him to sleep more during the day is it going to mess with his night time routine, which, apart from it being his biggest feed, I'm quite happy with?? Baby is breast fed, struggles consistently with one breast as the flow is immense and he often refuses that breast. Feeding is not a tranquil time, apart from during the night when we lay down to feed as it's easier for us both with the flow. During the day I'll feed lying down or rugby hold but if we're out I just muddle through with standard. Cheers, Liz.
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Posted By: DorothyW
Date Posted: 02 April 2014 at 10:24pm
Hi Dorothy
Nice to meet you yesterday. I will be travelling to the US and UK with my 9 month old daughter shortly. We will be away for 3 weeks in total and visiting 4 different places in this time. Please can you give me any advice on travelling in general, the planes, stop overs, time differences and any products you recommend to take. We will be taking a car seat to use on the plane and also travelling with our large buggy that we will check in, we will have our front pack for the airports/stop overs. thank you. Abbe
Thank you
Abbe
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Posted By: DorothyW
Date Posted: 03 April 2014 at 9:59pm
Hi Jellybean - thank you of your question. I would suggest that you look at his daytime routine. At six months ideally his wake times will be around 3 hours and he will be having two naps a day for 1 1/2 hours.
In his wake times he would be having food (solids and milk), play, milk and then nap. If he is cat napping then ideally you will try and resettle - this would help overnight when he wakes. When he goes to bed ideally he will self settle.
When he wakes overnight, I would suggest that you try and re settle before you feed him. This is to ensure that you are feeding for hunger and not comfort. Its not about not feeding him, but making sure he didn't wake for another reason.
Protein - I find with protein that it is more of a personal choice and people introduce this when they feel it is right. I would however, suggest introducing his third meal.
Dorothy
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Posted By: DorothyW
Date Posted: 03 April 2014 at 10:06pm
Hi Lynne119893
At 11 weeks old I would suggest a settling routine that involves her doing this in arms. IF you are settling in the cot then I would suggest the following
In cot
Leave for up to a minute
Pick up and burp
Put back in cot leave up to 5 minutes (however this is not about leaving your baby to cry it out but allowing her time and ability to find her sleep - this is an off and on grizzle - ideally more off then on)
Comfort - (reassurance - cupping/shushing/dummy) - for the first ten days I would do this until she goes to sleep
Resettling I would go into her as soon as she starts to stir and resettle with cupping and shushing and dummy. You stay with her until she goes to sleep.
Dorothy
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Posted By: DorothyW
Date Posted: 06 April 2014 at 1:20am
Hi Louissa118984
Some babies need their dummies until around six months. Ideally at 18 weeks ideally his wake times will be around 2 1/4 hours and he is having 3 naps a day with a minimum of 1 1/2 hours.
You haven't mentioned how you feed, but for breastfed babies the gastric emptying after 120 minutes is 16 to 18% so before putting her down for a nap I would suggest offering her a feed.
Her wake time routine would look like this
wakes, feeds, plays, feeds, sleeps
The settling routine I would suggest is similar to what you mention
First Stage
Leave to cry up to 5 minutes STOP THINK and ACT – the ACT may be to leave her for another 5 minutes OR
• Provide comfort with cupping/shushing. (Optional offer dummy). Remember this is to reassure and should be shorter than the crying time.
Then leave to cry up to 5 minutes, you may choose to do just 2 or 3 minutes here to begin with - STOP THINK and ACT
• Provide comfort with cupping/shushing then patting and shushing.Offer dummy Stay in the room until she goes to sleep. At this stage if she does not go to sleep then you do have the option of picking her up and putting her to sleep in your arms (see engulfing notes).
If she doesn't settle within 20 minutes then you need to stay with her until she goes to sleep and continue the cupping/shushing and dummy until this happens.
I think the second part of your question is to do with resettling over night. It takes approximately 20 minutes for a baby to find their sleep, therefore to resettle it can take this or slightly longer. I would suggest that you give her an appropriate time to resettle and if she can't then intervene with cupping/shushing and dummy. If she doesn't resettle then you offer her a feed - the idea of resettling at night is to ensure that you are feeding for hunger and not comfort. When i feed overnight I do a full feed, then burp and change and then re offer milk and then back to bed.
Dorothy
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Posted By: DorothyW
Date Posted: 06 April 2014 at 1:29am
Hi Naomif
I think once you have addressed his short wake period in the morning you will find that his morning nap will improve. Ideally he is having 3 wake times of approx., 3 hours and 2 naps of a minimum of 1 1/2 hours.
To do this take little steps and increase his wake times by 15 minutes and hold for 10 days, then re look at how he is coping. If he is managing this stretch then again stretch it out by 15 minutes until you get to the 3 hours.
In his wake times he will wake, play for up to 15 minute, food -milk and solids OR solids and milk, plays milk, then nap.
With regard to feeding to sleep, if you want to change this then when he is nearly finished, take him off the breast and just press his chin with your hand and this encourages them to do a sucking motion with their tongue. Then place him in the cot when you are ready. The next step would be to feed, then into his sleeping bag and then hold until he goes to sleep. The next step would be to do the same except put him in his cot and start from there.
Dorothy
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Posted By: DorothyW
Date Posted: 06 April 2014 at 1:32am
HI Sarah
I would be encouraging her to stretch her wake times out to 2 1/4 and by six months 3 hours. ONce you do these stretches she will automatically be having two naps a day.
If i was to have a moving nap I would choose the morning nap as when she is a toddler on 1 nap a day you would be aiming to have this straight after lunch.
Eventually the small band aid nap you are having at the end of the day will just disappear as I mentioned earlier.
Dorothy
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Posted By: DorothyW
Date Posted: 06 April 2014 at 1:44am
Hi Katya
YOur question is how to get your son Peter to sleep through the night. The answer to this is his daytime routine and in saying this you need to teach him to self settle and resettle. As you are feeding or rocking him to sleep you are not teaching him to self settle but you are doing it for him.
At 4 months he is ideally having wake times of around 2 hours and napping for a minimum of 1 1/2 hours. Before putting him down for a nap I would suggest offering him more food and to avoid the feed/sleep association you feed, swaddle/sleeping bag and then into his cot.
You mentioned you are allowing him to grizzle/cry for five minutes at his last feed of the day, however you do not do this at any other time. To help him learn to self settle (fall asleep) and stay asleep (resettle) in my experience you will get better results if you do this at each sleep time.
Ideally his wake time routine will look like this
wakes, feeds, plays, feeds, sleep
When putting him to bed your settling routine would be similar to this
First Stage
Leave to cry/grizzle up to 5 minutes STOP THINK and ACT – the ACT may be to leave him for another 5 minutes OR
• Provide comfort with cupping/shushing. Remember this is to reassure and should be shorter than the crying time.
Then leave to cry up to 5 minutes, you may choose to do just 2 or 3 minutes here to begin with - STOP THINK and ACT
• Provide comfort with cupping/shushing then patting and shushing. Stay in the room until your baby goes to sleep. At this stage if he does not go to sleep then you do have the option of picking him up and putting him to sleep in your arms - engulf - you can access my video either through OHbaby! or purchase off my website
You haven't mentioned whether you wake him for the 9pm or he wakes for this. Anytime he wakes after his last feed of the day (this is when I do the bath) then I always take the time to resettle. THis ensures I am feeding for hunger and not for comfort. When you are resettling you stay in the room until he goes to sleep
Dorothy.
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Posted By: DorothyW
Date Posted: 06 April 2014 at 2:04am
HI Vanmay
Pleased that you enjoyed it and had a chance to catch up with other mums.
Last month's OHbaby has an article on quit the bedtime battle which may give you some pointers for the night waking.
I do wonder what her diet is like and whether she eats a good meal before going to bed, as having two bottles of that amount of milk is a meal on its own
It is important to remember when dealing with a toddler that actions and consequences are followed through and they are not empty actions.
My favourite expression is to reward the good and ignore the inappropriate.
Also look at your use of language and be conscious of the meaning of the words you use. I do a lot of distraction when necessary and of course ignoring what I don’t want to draw attention to.
With regard to settle without the bottle, I would suggest letting her have one bottle for a period of time and just explain there is no more. After ten days then readdress it and cut the one bottle down in 1/2. I would also be encouraging her to have her milk from a Sippy cup as this is what big girls drink out of. It will be about you as parents to be consistent and follow through in a nurturing way. Once she stops drinking so much milk ideally her appetite at dinner time will increase.
Dorothy
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Posted By: DorothyW
Date Posted: 06 April 2014 at 2:13am
Hi Tersia 127409
At 3 months your sons wake times during the day will be around 1 1/2 hours and he will be having naps of minimum of 1 1/2 hours. Babies don't hate taking naps during the day, however some babies are easier to teach to sleep during the day. As sleep breeds sleep it is important he learns to self settle and resettle during the day.
You ask about how to get your son to go to bed at 9pm. In my experience he should be fast asleep at that time of the night. Ideally he is going to bed between 6.30 and 7.00pm and waking for a night feed when he needs it. When he wakes during the night, I always resettle - this is to ensure that I am feeding for hunger and not for comfort. If he cannot be resettled then you would feed him
His nap cycles during the day would ideally be a minimum of 1 1/2 hours and if he wakes before this I would resettle.
At 12 weeks you could be taking him out of his swaddle and putting him into a sleeping bag. IN my experience how I put them to bed in the daytime is how I would put them to bed at night time, so in answer to your question I would use one or the other - either the swaddle blanket or the love to swaddle.
NO, you don't decrease the milk at 3.00am, however you ensure he is getting all his food that he needs during the day and take the time to resettle if he wakes early from his naps and when he wakes in the night you resettle before feeding.
Dorothy
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Posted By: DorothyW
Date Posted: 06 April 2014 at 2:18am
HI KatieAnthony141595
At six weeks, the best place for her to learn to self settle and resettle is in your arms. HOwever you can do the same steps in her cot if you prefer to self settle and resettle in a cot.
When she wakes at night i would always try and resettle before feeding - this ensures you are feeding for hunger and not comfort, and if you cannot resettle then you feed.
As tired signs are hard for a lot of mums to see or when they see them the baby is overtired, i tend to go on clock time so at six weeks her wakes times will be around 1 hour stretching to 1 1/2 hours by the time she is six weeks old
Yes, when your baby cries you respond and at this stage it is easier to resettle a baby who is not fully awake. Over time as she grows you will need to step back and allow her time to do this. At this age it is normally to intervene and help her resettle and eventually over time she will not need this on a daily basis.
Dorothy
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Posted By: DorothyW
Date Posted: 06 April 2014 at 2:23am
HI Elizabeth 133078
In my experience sleep breeds sleep. Ideally at his age he is having wake times of 1 1/2 hours and having naps of a minimum of 1 1/2 hours.
I would be encouraging him to resettle in his naps if he wakes up less than 1 1/2 .
Dorothy
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Posted By: DorothyW
Date Posted: 06 April 2014 at 2:29am
HI
I would suggest for the airports to have a stroller that folds down like an umbrella. These strollers can be taken to the gate which makes life easier. As she is 9 months she will be eating meals on the go, so again the stroller is a good place to feed her.
Travelling
When travelling with your baby the first day of travel is always the hardest as you are having to take into account the time changes. I tend to mix and match on this day – sometimes they get an extra feed one way and the other way they may lose a feed – it all balances out in the end. I try and put them to bed as close to the new time change as possible and when they wake up in the morning I go straight into the new time zone. When doing this it is important to remember what the old time zone was so for the first couple of days they may need to be encouraged to eat well during the day.
I have attached notes on how to pack and travel
uploads/45521/Packing_for_long_haul_flight_for_baby_april_2014.docx" rel="nofollow - Packing_for_long_haul_flight_for_baby_april_2014.docx
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Posted By: DorothyW
Date Posted: 06 April 2014 at 2:30am
Hi Ladies
Thank you for all your questions and hopefully the answers will help you. It was lovely to meet you all at the OHBaby Coffee Catchup.
Remember before you do anything STOP, THINK, and ACT – work out what you are doing, why you are doing, and what you are trying to accomplish and then act.
Remember YOU are the baby’s mum and so listen to your heart and instinct. Yes, we all don’t do it by the book, or get it right the first time, but you need to make ‘mistakes’ to get it right for you. It’s a time of learning a little person’s personality and figuring out what works for your home life.
If you have the time I would love to see you pop over to http://www.facebook.com/BabyWithin
and 'like' it. You can then keep up with information that I post from time to time or hear from other mothers who write on the wall.
Please remember as a parent or carer that you should understand and acknowledge that Dorothy is NOT a licensed medical doctor or other licensed medical provider and the information that I share with you has come from experience and working with numerous families and babies and toddlers
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