nationals welfare shakeup....
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Topic: nationals welfare shakeup....
Posted By: julz85
Subject: nationals welfare shakeup....
Date Posted: 02 November 2011 at 9:47am
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http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10763273 - http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10763273
thoughts/ opinions ?
Heres my 2cents : As a single parent with a 2yr old i actually think its a good thing (in general , i dont agree with the whole thing) . i dont see any issues with solo parents going back to work , its not easy and alot of juggling needs to be done but it is do-able. My dd's dad left the scene when i was pregnant and refused to go on birth cert and does not help out fnancialy in any way ,as i was already in employment it never even crossed my mind to give up work all togteher , instead i went on maternity leave for 10mths then started back at work part time (20 hrs a week) , this is good thing , i like the work/baby balance and my dd loves preschool on the days i work BUT........ Last week i went into winz to see if there was any extra help i could get with accom supplement or anything else as i was really struggling even with working , when the case manager calculated things for me she told me as i was paying a high rent i would be able to get an additional top up of about $90 a week IF i was not working but as i worked that was reduced to $6 a week .... i then got the case manager to add up exactly what i would be getting if i was on the DPB (i am not going on it but wanted figures) , well i got the shock of my life when i got told that i get an extra $170 a fortnight for working ... Awesome $170 , thats great ... ahh wait ... i have to take $150 a fortnight out of that for the preschool fees while im at work .... hmmm $20 a fortnihgt for 40hrs ... thats 50c an hr i get paid! then to put insult to injury the case manager told me that i was probably better to stay at home and go on the DPB as after all i am both mum and dad so i may as well spend as much time as possible at home with her! I am truely disgusted with the attitude i got . how on earth is someone encouraged to go back to work with this sort of attitude and the big old reward of 50c an hour! so yes i completly agree that people should be going back to work (as a tax payer myself) but at the same time there needs to be a much bigger reward for working or much stricter criteria on DPB (no extra accom supplements for high rents etc ) as whos going to get out of bed for 50c an hour! . Nothing like a good old debate to start the morning off with ------------- http://lilypie.com">  
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Replies:
Posted By: xLUCKYx
Date Posted: 02 November 2011 at 10:43am
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It is easier said than done especially when the jobs aren't there. Depending on how long someone has been out of the workforce is also a factor and being a solo mum when the children get sick there would be extra sick days required which may be deterrent to potential employers. Although by the sounds of it, they have to be 'looking for work' not actually working.
I think it is a good thing to support mothers to get back to work but each persons situation is unique. I do believe that other beneficiaries should be targeted to get back to work as soon as possible though. |
Posted By: Isabella
Date Posted: 02 November 2011 at 10:53am
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Wow julz that is a really tough situation you're in..
And can I just say - well done to you for getting out there and working - you are setting such a wonderful example for your wee girl :) me personally, I am a believer in if you can not afford to support a child, then perhaps you shouldn't be having one (ohh how controversial!). I know there are many exceptions to this and circumstances can change, and it's great to live in a society where financial help is available to those in a tricky spot.. I am similar - I work 30hrs/week and so qualify for no subsidies/supplements/WFF when dh income and mine are combined... I have studied for 8 years at uni and not one week was I eligible for allowance so half of my $110k loan is for living costs ($150/week for me to live on). I think it's sh*te that after all this and the huge level of tax I pay now that I get no tax rebate whatsoever to help with anything.. I worked my *rse off for many years going without etc to be where I am now - so I for one am pleased that National are tying to get everyone to become responsible for their own families, their own futures so hopefully one day I can reap the rewards for a life of working like mad and all the stressors that go with it. |
Posted By: Isabella
Date Posted: 02 November 2011 at 10:57am
| Xela - I don't know about the jobs not being there - could it be that people have too high an expectation? What about all the seasonal work that becomes available in which people are recruited from overseas because "kiwis won't do the work".. I myself cleaned offices throughout my degrees and continue to do a bit now for extra pocket money.. And that's another thing - how about retraining? |
Posted By: xLUCKYx
Date Posted: 02 November 2011 at 11:05am
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Personally I have worked hard too and have returned to work part-time after having 2 beautiful kids. We are basically 'professional poor', skilled and working hard but don't qualify for any assistance at all. It is easy to feel bitter about it as I know first hand!
However, when you think about the hours a single mother has to work, to fit in with daycare it is limiting, and employers are also aware of the limitations for single mothers as employees. Don't get me wrong, I think it would be great to support them back into the work force. National's policy will see single mothers 'looking for work'but that doesn't mean they will find it. |
Posted By: Isabella
Date Posted: 02 November 2011 at 11:16am
| Good call Xela :) hehe "professionally poor" - love it.. So true xxx |
Posted By: buzylizy
Date Posted: 02 November 2011 at 11:58am
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I think when your child goes to school you should return to work. No questions asked. They are at school for 30 hours a week. Plenty of time to work. And as for only getting 1 year extra for another child, I say well done to that as well. I can't afford to have more than 2 children...so how can someone on the DPB afford it.
Love the professionally poor wording ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: minik8e
Date Posted: 02 November 2011 at 1:28pm
Would you like to come up with the 30hr per week jobs that you are talking about? Particularly ones who are happy to work around school hours, oh and wait, there's school holidays as well!! I think, in principle, it's a good idea. My PERSONAL opinion is that the DPB is there to support solo parents who need it in order to get back onto their feet - it shouldn't be a "lifestyle" choice, or there to support people who don't want to work. I was on the DPB for just over a year (and worked part-time) until I found something that suited my needs for hours to be able to come off the benefit. I work 30hrs a week now, and my children are at daycare for that time, and then with their father on the weekends. |
buzylizy wrote:Posted By: CrazyCass
Date Posted: 02 November 2011 at 1:57pm
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I Think some of the employers need to take some responsibility to - some are REALLY not flexable if you have young kids....
I do agree with the whole if your kids are at school you should be out working, there are always part time jobs going but so many people are fussy. I'm currently on maternity leave, and we are unsure IF I'll go back to work. THough I'm lucky DH is on a good wage so we will only need my extra income IF we want to continue overseas holidays etc. We also will not qualify for ANY assistance with just DH's income, we know we just need to adjust our spending accordingly. Though in saying that once bubs is 3 I'll Def be looking for something part time seeing as the gov will pay for 20hrs of daycare. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: AandCsmum
Date Posted: 02 November 2011 at 5:32pm
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I usually avoid these debates....
BUT
This bugs me....yes some flexibility would be nice but they do have a business to run. Fine if they are a large employer with others to cover but when they are a smaller business it sucks for them. ------------- Kel http://lilypie.com"> 
A = 01.02.04 & C = 16.01.09 & G = 30.03.12 |
Posted By: Plushie
Date Posted: 02 November 2011 at 6:09pm
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I'm also a single mum on the dpb and for the most part I agree, esp the bit about going back to work if you have a 2nd child on the dpb, as I don't quite understand how that happens - I know accidents happen but one expects that most people get into a relationship and off the dpb before having number 2 and if they are finding themselves in a position where they are a single mum x2 well...
As for jobs I work a kinds of odd jobs, I nanny 2 days a week and will fruit pick in summer if I can take ds in the manduca. I report all earnings to winz BTW. Anyway I think the point I'm making is that I literally struggle every week to survive, with less then $100 left over after rent and essential bills and if people stopped abusing the system people who need it might be a bit better off. Oh and as for retraining, its hard to qualify for any training allowence, I don't. I am retraining, with a student loan like everyone else, but I also need a laptop, internet at home, and the money to travel too, accomodation, childcare etc for 2 weeks block courses. I will pull the money out of thin air to do it so I can get a job and support ourselves. For my current job going back, subtracting childcare, I would be worse off a week. I actually don't know where this is going. Will stop now lol. |
Posted By: clover
Date Posted: 02 November 2011 at 6:47pm
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Julz, love your attitude, wish there were more like you.
Isabella, totally agree, if you can't afford them don't have them. XELA, love the professionally poor, that's us too 
Agree with A & C's mum, in an ideal world businesses would be flexible but at the end of the day they have a business to run and money to make. Bowie, loved your rant, you too are a great example of a single mum. minik8, agree with you too, the DPB is there for mums who need it, if only 'most' were like you and some of the others on this forum who use it as an emergency support and not a lifestyle. Julz post clearly shows how it can be used as a lifestyle when she is only earning such a minimal amount more per week. Wow, controversial topic and I agree with everyone...... ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: Shelt
Date Posted: 02 November 2011 at 7:19pm
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I can see both sides of this debate and its a hard question to answer. On the one hand I agree with minik8e that the DPB should be a hand to get back on your feet, not a lifestyle choice. But I also agree that its not that easy to find work out there as a single parent. A lot of the work that is available for unskilled people is the sort of thing that is done at night or on weekends, hours that it is hard to find childcare for - jobs like retail and working in packhouses etc.
I am a (professional working) single parent myself and I know how hard it is especially when you have a young baby. Babies tend to get sick and employer's patience only lasts so long. And I sympathise with business owners, they have a business to run and it is undoubtedly easier to hire someone you can rely on, who will be there the hours you need them to be and not have the issues that single parents tend to have with childcare and the like. However, all that aside, I agree that there is something wrong when someone is on the DPB declaring themselves as a solo parent and then goes and gets pregnant and has another child. One night stands aside, a great majority of these people must have been in relationships when they got pregnant. All I can say is I am glad its not me who has to make the rules! Now I just have to pick who to vote for.... ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: Puddleduck
Date Posted: 02 November 2011 at 8:45pm
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That's mental that there is so little financial benefit to you working julz! mums like you and Bowie who are contributing to the tax fund are awesome - I don't think there would be many who begrudge DPB payments to people in your situation at all.
Dh and I were talking about this tonight - super complex topic with no easy answers. Like you said Shelt, glad we don't have to make the rules!! Oh an love the professionally poor - that's us too (Although I know in reality we are pretty fortunate and a lot of people get by on less than we do).------------- http://alterna-tickers.com"> 
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Posted By: julz85
Date Posted: 02 November 2011 at 9:58pm
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i completley agree with everything everyones said . it is hard juggling work and as the only hours i can get means i have to work untill 8pm i have to really try hard to get help from friends with picking up dd from daycare and having her until i get home . I dont have alot of family support and yes its hard but definatly worth it . The main reason i am working with a young child is job security . i think it would be VERY hard not only getting a job after 5-10 yrs out of the workforce but also getting back into the swing of working .I may not get much Mny from working compared to the DPB but at least i know i have job security and i also get great work benefits as i work in telecommunications so free interent ,landline , mobile etc (things i would not have if i had to pay for it ) I was bought up by a working solo mother (my mum and dad divorced when i was 5 ) and she worked 40-60 hrs a week to support us and pay off a large morgage, to give us things that could not otherwise give us if she was on the DPB . we missed out on our mum being home afterschool , we never got home baking or lots of one on one time but we were clothed , fed , had a roof over our heads, always had fantastic birthdays and christmas's and never went without ... BUT what i have learnt is that i would like to have a bit more time to offer so thats why for at least the moment i only have to work part time which is awesome . I completly agree about people have second, third , forth... babies while still on the dpb , you think you would learn the first time , either that or these people are in relationships plus getting DPB which is very wrong and not fair on tax payers at all .
Bowie , shelt , Mink8 - all other single mummies- your all doing such a great job! ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: blossombaby
Date Posted: 03 November 2011 at 9:40am
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the professinally rich term is us too.
No wfftc or childcare costs - i returned to work simply because while we were'nt broke we were finding it hard to keep our heads above and i personally wasn't set out to be a sahm - while dp earns a good wage that covers everything rent, bills etc my wage (i did change jobs and have a lot more travel) covers child care costs and my travel with a little bit let over so i would be better off working part time and not paying the childcare costs but then when would we get family time? i heard someone say the other day - that they love being a full time sahm and they won't be looking for work (tehy are on the dpb) - ummmmm HELLO the dpb is for a hand up not a hand out! and while it is unfortunate they are a single parent alot of married couple mums don't get the chance to be a sahm due to $$ ... also i think alot of people have missed they are saying how many hours you need to work .. i mean surely its easy to work 8 hours? - i tihnk its time we sort the dpb abuses out its been far to long and how the hell can people be having kids while on the dpb?? 
and big ups to the solo mums working - its hard while i'm not solo my partner does work long hours so i have a slight understanding - your kids are goign to be so proud of you when they are older. x ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: TheKelly
Date Posted: 03 November 2011 at 6:08pm
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I was a single mum till my eldest was 4.5,I went back to work (just retail) part time when she was 6months,then when she was 1.5 I started a course,(part time) after I finished it,I spent the next few years up until she was 7 as a dental assistant,by which stage I had been off the DPB for a while and then went on maternity leave.
So I worked while she was at school,and yeah,some days it really sucked,I hated having to drop her off and run,especially on the days when she was worried about something,and I hated not being able to pick her up if she was sick,or pick her up when school finished.....but you do what you have to do,I didn't like being on the DPB,I didn't like the restrictions etc and I wanted to earn more than I would get on the DPB (which I did) being a solo mum and working while doing the role of both mum and dad was one of the most rewarding things i've done....funny now that I've got a husband Im too lazy to do the smallest amount of housework most days  ------------- 
http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: emz
Date Posted: 03 November 2011 at 6:25pm
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I wrote a big post yesterday about this and then hit the delete button
I think most single mums are awesome. All of you above just go to show that 
The thing I'm hearing from most opposition in the media (incl beneficiaries) is people saying that they'd have to put their children in daycare or they would miss out on a few things with their kids. Um... yep. Funnily enough I'm not a single mum but am usually parenting by myself and work an average of 55 hours a week. My kids are in daycare 10 hours a day and they get bloody tired. So do I. BUT... that's life. We've all got to make money somehow, and I don't believe breeding to keep on a benefit is earning your keep. So I'm glad they're proposed that mothers that have subsequent children while on the DPB have to look for work quickly. I'm glad someone has finally said what a lot of people have been thinking. I only wish those people got kicked off a benefit, or they were made to do parenting, budgeting and schooling courses to give their children a better life. I'm all for breaking the cycle for those that come from generations of handouts - I just don't get how you can feel proud of yourself if you choose to keep bludging. The DPB and other benefits are there for genuine cases where people need a temporary hand-UP in life and I support that. But they need to get these lifelong beneficiaries off their bums and into work, or make them volunteer with rubbish pickup etc if need be when the kids are at school. |
Posted By: kellie
Date Posted: 03 November 2011 at 9:21pm
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It's good that changes are being made, however what happens if they don't look for work?
If the mothers benefit is cut, it's the child that suffers. It's hard not to feel bitter when I hear of those abusing the system though. I would love to stay at home with my kids, but I had to go back to work soon after my PPL ended. ------------- 
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Posted By: clover
Date Posted: 04 November 2011 at 7:31am
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emz I agree with you, totally.
I guess the problem with social benefits is that you'll always have those that are happy with taking a hand out, you'll have those who do it because they have to and unbelievably you'll have those who are entitled but don't ask. We will never live in a society where benefits will be cut leaving people with nothing. It will just never happen. How strongly you police the 'looking for work' will be difficult but I believe it should include them having to actually apply for all manner of roles, including unskilled. I actually think that although not 100% there, Nationals idea of the benefit cards for teens on the benefit is a good one that could be extended. That way the funds can only be spent on the necessities of life, not entertainment and luxury items. I'm sure the mums on here probably wouldn't like being told where they can spend their DPB, however, when a single mum on the DPB (my neighbour) has a brand new LED TV, her kid has all the gaming stations, they're forever eating takeaways you've got to think something isn't quite right... ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: DzinerGirl
Date Posted: 04 November 2011 at 9:18pm
Agree! At least a decent portion should be in some form so it can only be spent on the necessities, that's what it's for after all isn't it? An ex-friend of mine got pregnant to her then partner who she was living with but they then "broke up" and he moved out so she could qualify for the DPB  ...It would be hard to prove these sort of cases unfortunately.
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Posted By: Plushie
Date Posted: 05 November 2011 at 6:12pm
| I wish they would direct pay the necessities - I think I would be better off! My weekly food/cleaning/personal stuff like shampoo budget is $25 for the two of us and obviously we are surviving but just! And just FYI I have no laptop, no home internet, no sky (in fact I have a old tv the previous tenent left behind not a flash one by no means) we have no takeaways, no alcohol or smokes etc. Honestly those people on the dpb who have new tvs etc - either they are up to their eyeballs in hps or debt or they are lying to winz and getting more then they are due. Or are super budget wizzs I suppose in which case they should show me their secret! |
Posted By: MissAngel
Date Posted: 07 November 2011 at 11:47am
I'll just jump in here on this one. Luckly I am married and dont have to deal with being on a benefit! BUT.. (and sorry if someone has already posted the same thing, i havent read the whole thread) - Seasonal work is crap. I picked fruit every season for 3 years whilst living in Kerikeri and omg.. I couldnt imagine trying to do it when you have kids! Its horrible! You have reactions to the sprays, if it rains theres no work/no pay, its intensly hard AND theres no such thing as part time hours. It was 7 days a week, sunrise til sunset. I saw some twit on TV saying about seasonal work for those who need jobs - what if you dont live where there is seasonal work? WINZ wont pay for your whole family to relocate to an area where there is lol. I think making mums who are 'single' and having many babies without a partner and staying on the DPB should be made to go to work - maybe it might stop so many children being born into poverty? I dunno.. its a touchy one isnt it! ------------- Alex, Thomas and Lily http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: minik8e
Date Posted: 07 November 2011 at 11:05pm
This is just me, and my opinion, however I would feel utterly degraded if it was decided that the government, of all people, should manage my money for me, as if I am incapable. Yes, some people screw it for other, but why punish the genuine people as well. I have spoken to a few DPB mums I know who feel the same - it would be degrading to them, to have that responsibility (of managing their own money) taken away from them. |
Posted By: Isabella
Date Posted: 08 November 2011 at 3:34pm
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I get what you are saying minik8e - but really, "my money"? Its "our" money... Its "New Zealand tax payers money".. I think unfortunately the genuine people are involved as well because in order to get the s*i*s who rip off the system - blanket rules are required. And the genuine people will only be on the DPB until they can get into work after their first kiddy is at a certain age huh? So it should only be for a short period of time that they're told what to do with our money
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Posted By: fire_engine
Date Posted: 08 November 2011 at 8:27pm
So do we do the same for people with student loans ... after all, that's "our money" as well. ------------- Mum to two wee boys |
Posted By: Isabella
Date Posted: 08 November 2011 at 8:37pm
Ah yes - but I pay all of that money back Plus with the skills I learnt while studying I can earn a decent wage and pay a lot of tax 
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Posted By: fire_engine
Date Posted: 08 November 2011 at 8:47pm
I don't have a problem with people who pay it back ... I do have an issue when people don't. They seem to forget that it is not their money - it is the public's money, it is not an automatic entitlement and that if the government hadn't paid out all the money in the first place, it would be better off 
(BTW - I am pro student loans - been there, done that! - but I am pro people paying them back too!) ------------- Mum to two wee boys |
Posted By: Isabella
Date Posted: 08 November 2011 at 8:55pm
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There are pretty strict rules on the student allowance (the one you dont have to pay back). It is means tested off parents/partners income (depending on how old you are), if you fail courses you dont get it again etc etc...
But yeah - I have had friends who qualified because their parents "hid" money in businesses, who helped their kiddies out a lot.. Grrr... That annoys me A LOT especially considering how high my loan is (not whinging about that, my choice to study = my responsibility to pay back a loan which I am incredibly grateful for being interest free) Moral of the story - when there are hand outs to be had - there will be cheating b*s*a*d* out there ruining it for everyone else.
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Posted By: NZ-rules
Date Posted: 08 November 2011 at 9:06pm
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Loving this thread! Yes, you miss out a lot on your kids growing up when you're working, but that's life when you have a mortgage and bills to pay. Personally I'm finding working 4 days a week exhausting and really challenging, especially when DS is sick, but it allows us to be financially comfortable and I feel good about continuing to use the skills I worked hard to get.
It really annoys me that I'm paying a crap load of tax to fund the welfare system for people who choose not to get a job when their kids are old enough - yes there are genuinely cases where there is no work to get, but I refuse to believe that it's the case for the majority of people. Get out there, get working, get the economy growing and let us spend the tax money on better things! ------------- 
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Posted By: deodora
Date Posted: 08 November 2011 at 9:24pm
I am in the highest tax bracket and feel fortunate to live in a society that values income maintenance, housing, health and education. If I used you logic I could complain that 'my' money was being used to pay for other people's children to go to state funded schools or for other people's parents to get benefits (pensions) and even if students pay back their loans millions of taxpayers dollars are lost through admin costs and lost interest. Sad to see how this policy encourages some people to find a group to blame for our country's economic woes regardless of whether it is true or not and then dress it up in self-righteous indignation |
Posted By: TheKelly
Date Posted: 08 November 2011 at 10:38pm
I dropped my daughter off at school last year,and one of the other mothers I used to talk to there was bitching and moaning to me,because her case manager had suggested she go back to work,just part time,a few hours a week. Her daughter,was 8....the school has a relatively cheap after school program,and her parents live next door (along with her 3 sisters all old enough to babysit) Her reasoning was that she wanted to spend all the time she could with her daughter "how do you do that when shes at school anyway?" ...didn't have an answer for that -------------
http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: tanialnz
Date Posted: 21 November 2011 at 4:19pm
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This topic makes me quite mad, I have an acquaintance who moved to NZ split up from her partner, has 3 children all in school, receives support from the father and has never worked. She worked it out the she is financially better off claiming benefits and has been doing so for the last 5/6 years, she also receives housing assistance. What makes me really angry is that she has several dogs, chickens, goats and horses!
I have worked really hard all my life, I am on maternity leave after my first baby, my DH works hard but doesn't earn much and we are just coping, but I don't qualify for any assistance. We are left with very little after everything has been paid. I think the whole system needs a shake up, I get upset that she has had the opportunity to be home with all of her children but I am going to have to go back to work just after my little ones first birthday. And even now she can still stay at home. It almost seems that just because my DH and I are together and we have both worked hard we are penalised. I would be better off if we split up and I lived alone, then I could claim all sorts of benefits! I know that this doesn't apply to everyone, but I'm sure she's not the only one doing this! Grrrrr sorry but it drives me crazy.
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Posted By: clover
Date Posted: 21 November 2011 at 5:24pm
couldn't agree more ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Plushie
Date Posted: 21 November 2011 at 10:14pm
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I really feel I should chime in and say between my last comment and this one I have managed to get a part time job (cleaning and after school childcare which I take ds along with me) and now only recieve like $80 ish a week from winz as an accomodation top up. So we are not all bludging losers.
I do take issue with the my/our/your tax payer thing (not aimed at any of the above posters it just has come up a bit lately) since I've worked full time 6 years now, and about to go back for the next 40 years MY tax paying will more them cover the 7 or so months I've spent on dpb right? Sorry its my new pet hate when people loudly claim "its my husbands tax dollar that pays your rent rah rah" |
Posted By: whipersnapper
Date Posted: 21 November 2011 at 10:15pm
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Thankgod for the DPB.
When my husband walked out on my children and I two and a half years ago, I dont know what would have happened if the dpb wasn't there. I already had 6 kids (none of them conceived on a benefit, but a very good wage) not all aprents who claim benefits are there too breed and live off the system. When hubby left i had a 4 yr old and 2 yr old twins, i would have loved to have seen what kind of job I could have gotten... My twins turn 5 next month and I plan to study and get a degree so i wont have to spend another minute on the stinking dpb. Life for me is a constant miserable struggle, and I will not live like this if there is something I can do to improve my situation. (not to mention sitting around all day doing nothing would drive me crazy) The DPB has it's place, but unfortunatly there will always be people that abuse welfare. Ultimatly, sending mums back to work when babies are 1 will only damage children. (and i'm sure any money they save, the government will be forking out in childcare costs to mums who cant afford to pay for it. the whole thing is crazy. |
Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 22 November 2011 at 7:46am
Firstly, I'm all for the DPB provided it's not abused. I'd hate to live in a country where Mums suddenly on their own were forced to fend for themselves. But that statement confuddles me somewhat. I mean, I went back to work when my son was just under one - have I damaged him? I have a hubby, but it doesn't change the fact the kiddo's in daycare. -------------   
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