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overly attached 3month old - help!

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Topic: overly attached 3month old - help!
Posted By: mummymonster
Subject: overly attached 3month old - help!
Date Posted: 04 August 2011 at 1:14pm
My little man is 14 weeks and a little snugglebug, I admit that I've gotten myself into this predicament but I have no idea how to get out of it.

I've gotten us into a position where he thinks he NEEDS breast to go to sleep and to stay asleep. This means that for a sleep (during the day) he needs me to feed him, then leave him on my lap/side so he can re-attach at will. The other day he spent 1 1/2 hours suckling while he slept.

If I put him in his cot awake he screams the house down.
If I put him in his cot asleep it lasts about 5 min (10 min max).
If I try walking/jiggling him to get him to sleep, I usually give in after about 30min of crying as he wants breast or nothing!

My little man knows what he wants, and it's me ALL day long. I need some separation. Right now he's asleep in my bed after I've spent 2hrs - oh no that didn't last.

So, any suggestions on how I can get some separation? I'd rather not leave him to cry, but even when I do it doesn't seem to help as after 5 - 30 min I give in and feed him to sleep anyway. I really don't think I can leave him longer than that, he just howls and howls.

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Replies:
Posted By: Jaune
Date Posted: 04 August 2011 at 1:39pm
It's probably just a phase. DS tends to go through these little stages every few months but totally comes out the other side his usual self-settling, good sleeping self.
I would just give him what he needs...obviously you...and go with the flow...but I'm sure that's easier said than done with a toddler as well!

He could be going through a growth spurt too and just wants to east 24/7.



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Posted By: MamaT
Date Posted: 04 August 2011 at 2:25pm
Personally I don't think a baby can ever be "too attached". You are his whole world and the fact he wants/needs you with him is normal, and a testament to your parenting.

My son was/is much the same, people suggested dummies but I personally don't like them, and they didn't work anyway.
Do you have a carrier of some description that allows him to be with you, but gives you hands to be able to continue on with your day?


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Posted By: pudgy
Date Posted: 04 August 2011 at 3:36pm
That is my ds to a T. And he is still the same now at 18 mnths. I agree with mamat, I don't think babies/children can be too attached.

I suggest getting a sling/wrap/carrier. He will get his fix of mama and yous will be able to o things at the same time.   

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Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 04 August 2011 at 5:12pm
I absolutely don't think there's such a thing as too attached if it suits Mum and Bubs. On the other hand, I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting a bit of a break to lie down yourself when Bubs is asleep, if that's what you'd prefer!

I don't know if I'd leave a three-month old to cry too long, personally, so don't feel bad that you'd rather not! Can you try something else that bounces him a little, like a swing or hammock?

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Posted By: mummymonster
Date Posted: 04 August 2011 at 5:27pm
He won't take a dummy, he knows it's not the real thing.
If I put him in a moby he goes to sleep eventually, but shortly wakes up demanding his breast back for his mid-nap snack. Then I end up with him suckling for the rest of the nap again.
I need some away time, I think on average I get about 20 min non-baby time per day till DH gets home.

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Posted By: JessDub
Date Posted: 04 August 2011 at 5:32pm
I recommend Kathy Fray's Sleep chapter in her Oh Baby book.

While I understand that people believe you can't be 'too attached' but sometimes life (i.e. having other children) means you can't reasonably be expected to be 100% attached to your baby.


Posted By: Plushie
Date Posted: 04 August 2011 at 7:37pm
I'm another you cant be too attatched believer. Do you think it would be possible for you to breastfeed in the moby? I feel your pain, i really do - DS self settled from 4ish months til a few weeks ago with no problems. Before that he was just like your DS sounds, except he didnt sleep suckle but did have to sleep on me. I went nuts, sitting on the couch, him sleeping, me mentally tallying the jobs i could be doing if only he were in his cot. Lately he requires cuddling to sleep at all times and we are no co-sleeping as he likes to have me nearby during the night. But i am always being complimented on how happy and content and laid back he is which i put down fully to our attatchment, he has no reason to cry because i'm always there to meet his needs. For us this style of parenting is working fantastically though i understand its not for everyone. I know its probably not the answer you were looking for but i thought i'd add my perspective to everyone elses replie. Good luck


Posted By: T_Rex
Date Posted: 04 August 2011 at 7:56pm
Could he have reflux? The endless needing to suck and waking up screaming if you take the boob away sounds a lot like my DD used to be. The sucking and milk soothed her throat and let her sleep. I also tried a dummy to no avail, I'm guessing because she was after the soothing sensation of the milk rather than the sucking action.

You could try tilting his cot up to see if that helps?

If you are feeling caged by his behaviour, it's perfectly ok to work on changing it. If you are happy but other people are hassling you that he's too attached, it's perfectly ok to continue as you are

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Posted By: Danda08
Date Posted: 05 August 2011 at 9:04am
Going against the grain slightly I totally get you needing to not be attached to your wee man 24/7.

Both my girls would only sleep on us (thankfully not suckling) for weeks. While it was so lovely, it got extremely tiring and frustrating. What helped us was getting Natures Sway hammocks and going back to very firm swaddling and dummies. My girls didn't like them either but we perservered and they did the trick.

Have you checked out The Sleepstore website? There is a huge range of sleep info on there for different age & stage babies.

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Posted By: mummymonster
Date Posted: 05 August 2011 at 1:21pm
someone suggested I try a different brand of dummy - fingers crossed

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Posted By: InthemiddleMummy
Date Posted: 05 August 2011 at 2:41pm
IsaacsMum
Unlike the other mums Im not into attachment parenting.So choose weather you listen to my tips or not.

I believe in a good solid breast/bottle feed. (not snack feeding)good burb, a good cuddle/play/chat/goo/gaa/change and then wrapped into bed awake not to be seen till the next feed.

I love my babies but I love my time and time with my other children too. Its also important to have time for you and DH as a couple and with a baby swinging off you 24/7 this can affect even the most stable of relationships. Not to mention the tired/exhaustion carrying / bf a baby on demand can induce.

I found with my DD she really needed a routine at around 9wks I implemented this and it was amazing, I also implemented a dummy, a dummy with the tiniest newborn teet. try a chemist I found best for this, baby shops seem to have huge dummys. There was rules about the dummy for me. only once I knew she had a good feed/play/cuddle then wrapped into bed with the dummy. she only needed a dummy for 2-3weeks until her sucky reflux thing disappeared and awake to sleep rather than feed to sleep was established. dummy never to be seen again.

Basics in my style routine at 3month stage for a routine is 1 hour up and 2hour down. so feeding 3hourly cycle

As I said its not the attachment parenting theory but a differnt approach to what other mums have suggested above. it sounds like baby on you 24/7 is getting a little draining and you are not a bad mum for saying or feeling this way.

So choose weather you listen to my tips or not Im not offended Im just telling you what worked for me and that was trainig my baby to fall asleep without my boobs or arms.


Posted By: Plushie
Date Posted: 05 August 2011 at 6:24pm
Girls Rock - i swear i am not writing this to get at you, i am genuinely curious - when you put your awake fed changed baby to bed what do they do? Do they go to sleep or fuss or what? Also if they wake up earlier then the next feed time do you get them up and adjust the routine or do they wait?

ETA: Isaacsmum hope the change of dummy helps. DS didnt take one at all (though he was the same, a constant sucker) until he was 3.5 months. And even then it was a specific brand. And while i had two the same he would only take one of them. Go figure. Hope you find a solution you're happy with.


Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 05 August 2011 at 6:33pm
Originally posted by Bowie Bowie wrote:

Girls Rock - i swear i am not writing this to get at you, i am genuinely curious - when you put your awake fed changed baby to bed what do they do?


I'm not the OP, but that's how I put Jacob to bed, mostly because it was the only way to get him to sleep (weird baby). If I timed it right, he's talk to himself (usually for five - ten mins, sometimes up to 45 minutes, which really weirded me out, although OB ladies assured me that some babies just do that) and then nod off. If I was a bit out, he'd cry - if I was lucky, he'd grizzle and go to sleep, if I was unlucky he'd howl - and at that point it didn't matter if he was up or down or what, he got in a tizzy, and it was really about waiting it out (although I didn't leave him to cry when he was really little, I just held him while he cried and as soon as he stopped for a moment, put him down again - awake - and crossed fingers and hoped). He used a dummy, and that helped a lot.

ETA that the Nuk dummies were the only ones Jacob would take - he took to them well, so maybe worth a try if you haven't already.

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Posted By: Plushie
Date Posted: 05 August 2011 at 6:39pm
Thanks Hopes! I didnt really mind who answered lol i was just curious. Max was a bit of a 'put me down and go away thank you very much' for a few months but when he was little and in the last few weeks he's gone back to wanting to be snuggled to sleep. I know if i tried to put him down when he wanted snuggling he'd scream the roof down so was more curious if other babies just casually went to sleep and if mine is nuttier then a nutbox.

ETA: Nuk was the only type Max would take too and i AM NOT saying this to be a scaremonger but just last week i went in to check in on him and he'd stuffed the entire thing in his mouth and the wing was stuck behind his gum, poor lad was besides himself. The same thing happened to Limochicks little girl with the same brand. I dont know if our bubs just have big mouths of if they're poorly designed or what...


Posted By: tiptoes
Date Posted: 05 August 2011 at 7:09pm
I had a similar problem, but more just wanting to be held than fed to sleep and I found swaddling, white noise and the hammock really helped and some sleeps he still slept on me or in a sling. So maybe try the white noise too?

I had a CD, but I've heard radio static works well too.

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Posted By: mummymonster
Date Posted: 05 August 2011 at 7:23pm
he's got a technique resistant strain of anti-sleep.
I've tried and failed with white noise/car trips/swaddling/pram/dummies. Today he had a 2 1/2 hour nap (yay) but i had to re-latch him about every 15min for him to stay asleep.

i ordered one of those battery powered rocker/glider things today, and bought two new dummies (which he promptly rejected).

DH is all for hard line (followed by him walking DS2 up and down the hall way for an hour).

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Posted By: T_Rex
Date Posted: 05 August 2011 at 7:34pm
Bowie, did you know lots of dummies have a specific age they are recommended for? Maybe it's time he went up to the next size? But yeah, I've noticed the Nuk dummies have much smaller tops too.

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Posted By: T_Rex
Date Posted: 05 August 2011 at 7:43pm
Originally posted by IsaacsMum IsaacsMum wrote:

he's got a technique resistant strain of anti-sleep.
I've tried and failed with white noise/car trips/swaddling/pram/dummies. Today he had a 2 1/2 hour nap (yay) but i had to re-latch him about every 15min for him to stay asleep.


I still think this sounds like it could be reflux? This sounds a lot like my DD was and once I got on top of her pain issues, she suddenly lost this resistance to all the standard baby sleep methods that she'd had until then.

They don't have to actually spill for it to be reflux. Maybe have a chat to your plunket nurse or GP if you've got a good one?

I hope you get some respite soon.

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Posted By: Plushie
Date Posted: 05 August 2011 at 7:50pm
Thanks T-rex, he had the 6+ size so i would assume it was alright but you never know. He doesnt have it anymore anyway so a non issue.

I just remembered that DS was suspected of having reflux by plunket - i took him to the family centre to see if they could help me settle him which is another option if its at all possible for you.


Posted By: maya22
Date Posted: 05 August 2011 at 7:51pm
What you describe sounds like silent reflux to me.

You need to either rule it in or rule it out before doing any sleep training. If it is a medical issue that is causing the problem no amount of behaviour adjustment is going to work.

Please read this http://www.reflux.cryingoverspiltmilk.co.nz/reflux/symptoms/

Then read this
http://www.reflux.cryingoverspiltmilk.co.nz/reflux/whatisgastricreflux/

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DS1 July 2007
DS2 Nov 2010
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Posted By: AuntieSarah
Date Posted: 05 August 2011 at 8:55pm
I thought of reflux too, my ds2 has silent reflux and on bad days will only sleep like you describe. His is mostly under control with medication and restricted diet (for me) so fortunately we don't have those days too often. Would be worth reading the stuff maya22 has linked too and chatting to your GP about it.

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Posted By: CJsays
Date Posted: 05 August 2011 at 9:06pm
Isaacs mum sounds awful, i can understand why you want/need some time out, esp with another toddler to run after. I wish i could help you, i feed E to sleep still at 6 months corrected age, mainly because i want to and i like too, but she always transfers to the cot happily asleep, or if she wakes will generally go back to sleep happy (not today tho grrr!). could be the whole "i have gone to sleep on mum and now woken up in a different place and that is scary" thing. in the beginning cuz I had reflux we had to keep her upright for at least 15mins after feed ot prevent spilling and pain, there is a point where they go limp in sleep (arms are heavy with no resistenance) that is the best time to try transfer them. try that, if no joy you may have to put him to bed very very drowsy and stay in the room see if that helps then gradually move out (that worked for me at one stage only by accident as i was fiddling with her radio trying to put it to white noise and she calmed right down before i even got the radio sorted). that's all i can think of, but I totally hear you, i can see you want a solution to at least get a minute to yourself!

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Posted By: Raspberryjam
Date Posted: 05 August 2011 at 11:31pm
I agree with others who have said check out the sleep store.
Also, can you borrow a sleep sling (like a natures sway) from someone, seems to help with refluxy babies.
Maybe a bit of infacol before a feed, it could be wind.

My little one was the same, hard work

One suggestion made to me was block feeding - feed for 4 hours from one boob before swapping sides - make sure he is getting a good feed with hindmilk too - not just the foremilk. You may be quenching his thirst, but not giving him a nice full fatty milk belly

Best of luck hun, and while it dosent feel like it right now - he will grow out of it

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Posted By: mummymonster
Date Posted: 06 August 2011 at 8:32am
i don't think it's reflux. DS1 had silent reflux and this boy spills but is quite happy about it. he just loves booby and cuddles.
thanks for all your input i think i am going to try getting him to sleep in his cot by putting him down drowsy repeatedly. I say 'think' because i'm not sure i've got the will power.

i have often wondered what 'routine' parents do when the baby screams when it's supposed to be nap time. either end of the nap. i mean if i just put DS2 in the cot with a dummy he wouldn't go to sleep he's just scream. or DS1 who would never sleep more than 45min at a go, what happens for the other 1 1/4 hours, do you just leave them crying in their cot.


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Posted By: maya22
Date Posted: 06 August 2011 at 8:37am
Originally posted by IsaacsMum IsaacsMum wrote:

i don't think it's reflux. DS1 had silent reflux and this boy spills but is quite happy about it.

doesn't sound like he is quite happy about it when he feeds constantly and doesn't sleep.

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DS1 July 2007
DS2 Nov 2010
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Posted By: Spacette
Date Posted: 06 August 2011 at 8:41am
I reckon that's a good approach (drowsy in the cot) - is pretty much what we did back around then (and still do). If she screamed I'd go and comfort her pretty quick, but often she'd grizzle a bit, or occasionally just go to sleep. I know what you mean about needing just a little bit of time.

You can always go in quickly if he cries, give him a cuddle, put him down, repeat as necessary. I found sometimes doing that several times would work. It's all a bit luck of the draw though .

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Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 06 August 2011 at 8:51am
Originally posted by IsaacsMum IsaacsMum wrote:

or DS1 who would never sleep more than 45min at a go, what happens for the other 1 1/4 hours, do you just leave them crying in their cot.


If you ever find the answer - I perpetually wondered about this one too!

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Posted By: InthemiddleMummy
Date Posted: 06 August 2011 at 11:43am
To answer a few questions thrown around....

like raspberry jam I also feed my babys only from one side per feed. theory being if you do a wee bit from each side they are only getting the fore milk (kinda described as like trim) this wasnt something recommended by the routine, just something I found worked for us for both babies. I didnt top up ever before putting baby down to sleep.

think of yourself going to sleep on a full tummy after a huge meal, you feel uncomfortable and find it hard to sleep and Im sure this is what it must be like for babies whom go to sleep on a full stomach??

Yes just like other mum said when you put them to bed awake, they kinda goo and gaa for a bit lye in bed happy as, and drift off to sleep, much like they do now as 3 and 5year olds thinking about their day I guess? thats what I do before bed anyway when falling asleep.

I remember when DD first started at daycare (at 9months_ and the teachers in the babies nap room just couldnt believe how different she was to the others, happy to go to bed and happy when she woke up, most the others that were feed to sleep would cry to sleep then cry when they woke up. A couple of the ECE teachers are ex karitane nurses (in their late 50's early 60's and were so impressed to see a baby in a routine and said she was so content for it. the younger ECE teachers all quizzed me with great interest on what books/routines I had read/followed and how I implemented them.

I was so amazed myself too as after just 3 days into routine feeding she hardly ever woke before "she was meant too" and if she did she wouldnt wake crying always smiling, knowing mum was coming with a booby soon and her wee body clock was adjusted to know when the next BF was coming.

I wouldn't feed her until nearer the scheduled nap time if she did wake early, sometimes I would leave her in her bed until feed time (as had other children to care for things i had to get done etc) as she didnt cry I didnt know she was awake anway. If we were out and about in pram or car, and she woke early, she still didnt cry and Id feed her close to her scheduled time. If on the odd time she did cry, depending on how far into nap time it was, I would leave her in her basinette and just pat her/stroke her forehead say ngh nghs time etc soothing voice, pretty standard thing to do Id say. If she woke up crying close to end of nap time (say if sibling woke her or something) I would get her up and give her a cuddle etc and again just feed her close to her feed time. so nice after 9weeks of constant spilling/reflux/crying/not sleeping 24/7.

hey what works for one doesnt always work for another but a dear friend and a cousin both put me onto the babywise routine, which has similiar theorys to the baby whisperer and Im so pleased they did because I was loosing the plot before that with no sleep in 9weeks. Its very controversial for some reason but for us the idea that baby's body clock is feed at similar times each day helps baby's digestive system to work well and they gain weight well etc and it certainly did for our baby as the reflux and colic and power chucking all stoped once onto routine breast feeding.

anwyay not wanting to steel your thread isaacsmum just wanted to let you know that the babywise routine worked for us and if it interests you buy a copy off trademe and read the chapter about starting late first then followed by the getting baby into routine chapter.

good luck with what ever you want to try isaccsmum. hope to hear from you soon that bubs is having good naps and you are getting a bit more ME time.


Posted By: Plushie
Date Posted: 06 August 2011 at 11:43am
No offense Maya but the two dont need to go hand in hand. DS is a happy chucker/not so happy sleeper as well.
Edit: had written that Girls Rock might know the answer re: routines but shed replied while i was writing :roll:


Posted By: mummymonster
Date Posted: 06 August 2011 at 12:27pm
He's not interested in feeding while awake. today DH has been putting him down for naps (i.e. walking him round, puting him in the cot drowsy, then he'll cry and repeat) so no feeding to sleep.
I thought this would make him hungry and he'd feed when he got up, nope.
I know this is a touchy topic as I have nothing against routine, DS1 fell into a routine which wasn't textbook perfect but I could go with it.

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Posted By: maya22
Date Posted: 06 August 2011 at 12:35pm
Originally posted by IsaacsMum IsaacsMum wrote:

He's not interested in feeding while awake.

As in he won't latch? Or he will latch and then come off quickly? Or that he can't deal with the flow? Or that he screams during the feed? Or he is not hungry? Or what?

Of course it may just be that in feeding him while he is asleep he is not hungry when awake - so you are perpetually continuing the problem.

If you did not try to put him to bed, how long is he happy to stay awake for? Maybe you are trying to fit him into a routine that he is not wanting to be in. What is his natural rhythm when you do not try and 'fix' him.

This is not normal for a 3 month old, it sounds as if you have something more going on than *just* behavourial that can be fixed with allowing your baby to scream himself to sleep.

I really wonder if reflux meds might help your situation, your baby sounds as though he is in pain.





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DS1 July 2007
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Posted By: Isabella
Date Posted: 06 August 2011 at 12:40pm
DD went through a stage of having to be fed to sleep EVERY time at about the same age Issacsmum.. The thing that spurred me into changing things was she was about to start homebased daycare for a few days a week and I couldnt bear the thought of her being left to cry to sleep by the carer... So I started just putting her into the cot awake and leaving the room, then going back in, and leaving again, and going back in, and leaving again... hehe you get the point..

After a couple of days of this she got the idea that I was still there, and I would come to her - but not get her out of the cot - she was there to sleep..

Now I put her down awake and 90% of the time she will talk to her toy giraffe (god help us if we ever loose that thing!) to sleep... The other 10% she will cry and put up a bit of a fight but eventually within about 5 minutes will be snoring

I think the day I stopped stressing about sleep and just went with it - was the day we all got a lot happier here... So just go with whatever works for you - try a few things out and see how they go - but make sure you try each thing for 3 days as thats how long it takes to become a routine :)

Good luck - and before you know it this stage will be over!


Posted By: kebakat
Date Posted: 06 August 2011 at 12:58pm
OMG that would drive me insane!

The baby whisperer I think has great techniques for settling. Do you know anyone with her dvd so that you can watch it? Or is there any going cheap on trademe? We used her techniques and went from a crap sleeper to great sleeper. I never feed to sleep or anything else. put in the cot and leave him and 95% of the time he just goes to sleep without me needing to go in his room. Ocassionally he will get himself stuck in some stupid position and I just have to put him back and he goes to sleep. Been like that since we used her techniques


Posted By: mummymonster
Date Posted: 06 August 2011 at 6:30pm
maya - he's just not interested. he'll look the other way or latch for just a few seconds. i figure he' so full from deamfeeding that he doesn't need anymore (continuing the cycle). I had hoped that no feeding to sleep today would help break it. Will try again tomorrow.

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Posted By: maya22
Date Posted: 06 August 2011 at 7:29pm
When was the last time he fed properly when awake?

He may have completely lost the skill iykwim, and not know how.

How do you wind him if he is asleep when he feeds? Could it be that burps are keeping him from settling to a peaceful sleep. Does he spill during the feed (ie while asleep lying down) or when you get him back up after? Does he sleep upright on your shoulder or in a frontpack or upright in the buggy peacefully?
Would he settle better in bed on his side (left hand side down helps the milk go down and stay down) or on his tummy?

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DS2 Nov 2010
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Posted By: InthemiddleMummy
Date Posted: 06 August 2011 at 7:49pm
keep trialling the not feeding to sleep isaccsmum keeo at it for 3days breaks the cycles I reckon

like maya22 my girls both slept on their sides
(very un pc not something the routine babywise book mentioned by the way) it was just what they did on their own accord. they seemed comfier on their sides too.


Posted By: mummymonster
Date Posted: 06 August 2011 at 7:58pm
when he dreamfeeds it's such a peacefull slow feed i don't think he has wind. when i do try to get a burb up after an awake feed, well i don't usually get a burb - except sometimes after a full-on feed and he doesn't do that often. if he's feeding on my lap sometimes i'll angle him up and walk a bit, not very many burbs there either.

sometimes he across my lap feeding, sometime we lie on the bed, either way not much spilling and not much gass.

he's just generally pretty happy and content when he's getting what he wants (me) what ever position he's in.
he only howls when he's put away from me for sleep time, or away from me in the capsule, or when he's overtired and we're trying to get him to sleep without feeding.


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Posted By: BeLoved
Date Posted: 06 August 2011 at 8:08pm
Have you tried putting the tshirt, top etc. that you have been wearing in the cot with him? This worked for both my sister and for myself with my DD. We both put it down underneath them or stretched over the mattress depending on how big the tshirt is.


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Posted By: CJsays
Date Posted: 06 August 2011 at 10:29pm
E used ot have wind from feeding, but now she doesn't at all, and i feed her to sleep and keep her horizontal and put her in her cot, no problems. i have no issue for feeding to sleep as it works for me, but if you want to try change it then go for it, not sure if the feeding to sleep is the issue here tho. but i have no idea wot it is!! babies are such confusing creatures sometimes.
this is going to sound real weird, but on her spill cloth on her sheet i always rub my face in it when we put a new one on each week (Not that she spills anymore, just habit!), i reckon the smell of her mummy by her must help too.
Keep updating this, i would be keen to know how you get on and what eventually works (because something will!)

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Posted By: mummymonster
Date Posted: 07 August 2011 at 9:51am
DH is doing sleep times over the weekend. He went down for his first nap ok, then fed when he woke . He's not so keen on the second nap though

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Posted By: Puddleduck
Date Posted: 07 August 2011 at 2:16pm
Isaacs mum - he sounds exactly like my DS, who until recently would only sleep on my lap using me as a dummy. I didn't mind too much, but that's because he's my first, I imagine a toddler would change that!

Now that he is 5 months I have cracked down on things and only feeding three hourly (where possible) and putting him in the cot awake for sleeps. Most of the time he goes down without too much fuss, but today big tears so I fed him for about 2 mins, leaning over the cot so he was still lying in it and then once he had calmed right down swapped boob for dummy. Seems to have worked he is still asleep after an hour.

He will now do up to 90mins in the cot, where previously only 30min max, or about 5min if put down asleep. The only thing we tried that you havent mentioned is osteo, which seems to have really helped him.

Good luck!

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