Trauma to mum after long/operative V.B
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Topic: Trauma to mum after long/operative V.B
Posted By: InthemiddleMummy
Subject: Trauma to mum after long/operative V.B
Date Posted: 27 July 2011 at 8:34pm
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My first daughter was born via v.b with large episiotemy ventouse and forceps. I received quite a bit of trauma physically that has taken me years to recover from. Subsequent children have been born via c/s as result of the trauma from the vb.
Recently I have just met a friend whom has had an even worse trauma than me from this type of birth and just wondering how others have coped or what sort of medical assistance they have seeked. Ive found many mums dont talk much about their problems post traumatic v/b and the problems that go with episiotemys and long labours, just wondered if others want to talk I had Neville-Barnes Forceps (NBF) which are used for when baby is high/mid in the birth canal. just searched google and found this (Acronym = FORCEPS): Fully dilated cervix. Occipito-anterior position preferably - occipito-posterior position (OP) delivery is possible with Kielland's forceps and vacuum. Ruptured membranes. Cephalic presentation. Engaged presenting part, i.e. the greater diameter of the baby's head has passed the pelvic brim. Pain relief is adequate. Vacuum extraction or low forceps - minimum of perineal nerve block. Mid-forceps - epidural or pudendal nerve block, or general anaesthetic. Sphincter (bladder) empty. |
Replies:
Posted By: Shelt
Date Posted: 27 July 2011 at 10:01pm
I'm not sure exactly what type of trauma you are talking about but I know it took me a long time mentally and physically to recover from the birth of my DD. She was prem and posterior, I only had gas as the hospital midwives did not believe I was in labour and couldn't check (premature rupture of membranes) and then my daughter's head got stuck. I pushed for more than 2 hours and her heart rate started to drop, at which point they did an episiotomy and I managed to get her out. She had the cord wrapped between her legs, round her body and neck and her hand up by her face which is part of the reason she got stuck. When the episiotomy was stitched up they stitched too tightly and the stitches ruptured on Christmas Eve and I endured 13 weeks of "healing" before I finally got to see a gynacologist and have the skin flap and dead skin cut out and restitched. The gynacologist found it so interesting (the way it had been botched and not healed) that he got two nurses, a student nurse and another doctor to have a look - not so lovely 
The way I coped was by telling anyone and everyone who would listen about my experience. I also found it good to write it all out and how I felt about everything that had happened. I also saw a councellor and discussed how I felt which was helpful and it was just nice to have someone sit and listen who didn't jump in with her own birth story and validate my feelings. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: InthemiddleMummy
Date Posted: 27 July 2011 at 10:10pm
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lol come on ladies or lurkers should I say, 33 views and no posts.
i know some people have said they have had no issues from forceps births, but others have had no end of problem. There is a section for support for c/section birth, but not much on operative vb births. It also worries me about the babies and what effect does ventouse or forceps or both deliveries have on their wee brains long term!!! I would never attempt another ventouse or forceps birth myself purely in worry for my baby, let alone how id cope again. I was talking to a tradesman recently and his son was born by forceps and has learning disability, it makes you wonder if there has been any research on the babies and how it does affect them. |
Posted By: T_Rex
Date Posted: 28 July 2011 at 7:36am
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GirlsRock, often any brain damage of an assisted baby comes from being deprived of oxygen (which is why it was assisted in the first place) rather than the assistance itself. That is the most dangerous thing.
I was pretty distressed by my VB - it was a vonteuse too, and they couldn't find a heartrate on DD. I knew she was potentially in big trouble so for me that was the worst bit. I worried for ages that she wouldn't be *normal* because of it. Like shelt, I've been to a counsellor about it (just for a couple of sessions) and talked to others who've been there, and plenty who haven't, lol. My poor childless friends probably didn't want some of those details! It's also been a big motivator for me to be very proactive about this birth, so that I can do everything I can to help it go smoothly. Of course, it may not go smoothly still, I understand that. But at least I can make sure that any problems are not from things that I could have changed. I do have some serious regrets from DD's birth. ------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Kellz
Date Posted: 28 July 2011 at 8:33am
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Hi. I had PTSD following the birth of DD, coming up 5yrs ago.
The most effective thing that made the most significant impact on my recovery was having phsycotherapy with a phsycologist through community mental health. That was quite a long time down the track from the first time I sort professional help for the way I was feeling which was when DD was 8months old. It wasnt until I hit absoulte rock bottom when DD was 15months that I got the phycotheraphy that began my road to recovery, following hospital admission to the phsyciatric ward. I also found regular accupuncture for relaxtion, and energy boosting helped a lot- I kept this going monthly while preg with #2. I also used a natiural progersterone cream to help balance hormone levels, and found magnesium powder before bed helped me have a more settled sleep. 12months later I was fully recovered from the PTSD/PND. I was able to return to work as a nurse, could sleep at night, and could be present and even particpate in discussions about babies and birth, without freaking out at all- a major thing for me. The phycotherapy had made it possible for me to seperate my past traumatic experience, rather than any mention of birth making me relive the experience. When we were finally ready for #2, I did think about elective c-section as a way to avoid the trauma of the first birth, but instead decided that doing everything I possibly could to have a completely natural birth would be a more satisfying and healing experience for me, and was more in line with how I had wanted the first birth to go. But it was terrifying! I truly believe that if I had done all the research into drug free natural birth for my first birth, like I did with the second, that the first would have gone a lot better than it did. During pregnancy with #2 I read loads online, books, practiced hynobirthing techniques, had monthly accupuncture, read up on and taught my mum and dh labour accupressure techniques, and wrote lists for each person who would be at the birth- mum, DH, midwives- and had a meeting with all of them and told them all what I wanted and what I wanted from each of them. The midwife was unsure how all the scarring would cope with another vaginal birth, but I didnt let that bother me. There were times when I had minor freakouts during pregnancy, and once during labour when I thought "what the hell am I doing thinking I can cope with another birth/ another baby, arghhh". I did cope- with the support of DH and my parents. The birth was a wonderful experience that went how I wanted it to. We planned a homebirth,ecause the thought f being in hospital freaked me out, but would transfer to hospital if at any point it became safer for me or for baby to be there- so thats what we did- transfered to hospital due to muconium in the waters when I was almost fully dilated. DS was born an hr later, still completley naturally - vaginally with no drugs at all, and not even a scratch for me- complete contrast to the first birth! #1 had a large cuput(swelling ) on the side of her head from the long hard labour, and then the horrible lump and scabs from the vountouuse. She was a horrendously unsettled baby, and Im sure it was from the birth, at least at the beginning anyway. She was later diagnosed with other health issues, but I will never forget how she screamed and screamed as a newborn and the way her poor head looked 
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Posted By: Shelt
Date Posted: 28 July 2011 at 9:35pm
Sorry to hear about your trauma T-Rex and Kellz. Glad it went well for you the 2nd time Kellz. Interesting that you said that about the swelling and the screaming Kellz. My DD had a horrible swelling on her head (it looked like another head was growing out of her head at first) from being stuck so long and I will never forget what that looked like with the CPAP machine mask over her face. Just awful looking at her like that. She also screamed heaps and heaps and I took her to a cranial osteopath/chiropractor at 7 weeks old. she used to throw herself around so much that she rolled over several times by herself at 5 weeks! The chiro did a reflex test on her and she had very little to no reflex reaction on one side of her body and her neck and spine were way out of alignment. She was adjusted and was like a completely different baby. We had to go back for further adjustments but the difference that first one made was amazing. She was slow to crawl and dragged her leg for a long time when she first crawled and then when she walked and I often wonder if that was because of how scrunched up her spine was when she was born. She's fine now though. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Kellz wrote:Posted By: chelles
Date Posted: 28 July 2011 at 10:28pm
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I am similar to you Girls Rock. With DD1 I had a long labour (33hrs), 2 hrs of pushing, 2 failed ventouse attempts and then finally delivered by forceps. I too received some physical trauma which meant I had to have a c-sect with DD2.
I think this happens a lot more than you hear about as I have a couple of friends with terrible issues after V.B's (with forceps) too... ------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: buzylizy
Date Posted: 30 July 2011 at 11:23am
| I had a big baby and I am small and I tore after ventouse delivery and a baby whose shoulders got stuck. What made it worse is that I went private and paid a pack of money to be 'looked after well'. The signs were there that the baby was too big but still my ob induced me. I was angry especially after I told her I want a C section if she suspects it might be a hard delivery. She ignored me and let me go ahead resulting in third degree tear and a loong time of recovery...it would have been less traumatic had I had a Csection like I was leaning towards and got convinced by a specialist not to do. I have been carrying around the anger all this time and unfortunaetly I haven't been able to let it go yet. Love my son but this next baby is a C section. I hope eventually I can let go of the anger |
Posted By: buzylizy
Date Posted: 30 July 2011 at 11:34am
| I think first time preggie ladies don't get told what the potential life changing effects of VB can be. Everyone wants to gloss it over but people should be more aware of warning signs of potential trouble and we don't get told it because of the stigma around c sections. I wish someone had been more honest with me about the risk factors in VB like small pelvis, big baby, the true impact of a posterior baby. Things like that doesn't get discussed and I wish they would and why not scan when you go in labour to see if there are cords and things involved that you should know about. Its not the dark ages. |
Posted By: SophieD
Date Posted: 30 July 2011 at 1:14pm
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I agree with buzylizy, in that there is not an awful lot of discussion about the potential effects of a vb, before the actual vb. I also think women tend to gloss over the effects afterwards as well (me included) when somehow, no matter how horrible either the birth or healing after was, we still say 'oh it wasn't that bad' or 'I have a happy healthy baby so it doesn't really matter and I shouldn't complain' (this was me..lol)
everyone tends to shy away from the actual effects of hard labours and only really talk about the labour part, and even then everyone tends to gloss over it. I'm not saying we need to terrify expectant mums with worst case scenarios, but I for me it would have been less scary (after and during the birth) if I had had some discussion about the effects of a tramatic vb. In my case, I had very long labour (38+ hours) and a very large (11 pound) baby whose shoulders got stuck. I must say the 12 weeks after birth were horrible and no one really talked about it! ------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: SophieD
Date Posted: 30 July 2011 at 1:19pm
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lol just read your actual question and in regards to medical help afterwards, my mw was great to talk to and referred me to physios and people to talk to if I needed it. In the long run, my GP was/is amazing and because I see her pretty regularly these days she is always discussing how things are going.
Mentally I am ok, although had alot of anger initially that I had to let go and physically, it is getting there. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: InthemiddleMummy
Date Posted: 30 July 2011 at 6:23pm
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Great posts friends! Definately agree with what you say how they gloss over things, and all have such a negative approach to c/s.
It definately helps to get things off your chest and discuss with other mums, its just that sometimes you share your story with a friend and they are like oh yeah I had 3 stitches, stitches are so sore. Well an episiotemy is like 75 stitches. I found it was actually quicker to stitch up after the c/s than after the Episiotemy. Unless a friend / sister/mother has been thru a similar experience they have no idea what you are even beginning to talk about. gotta go now but will pop back in later for a better re-read/comment/chat have a great saturday night girls |
Posted By: mummytobesep08
Date Posted: 01 August 2011 at 10:03am
hey 
sounds quite similar to my birth. we had a botched forceps delivery, huge tear which tore an artery (didn't even know we had arteries in there!) so bled out pretty quick. what a bloody mess, literally! Anyway it was horrible for everyone involved, physically and mentally. I never healed right- not surprising because of all the trauma, and eventually needed an operation to try and fix things up as both the tear and episiotomy didn't heal right. Even after the op, it still didn't heal right but opted against more surgery as it weakens the muscles each time. Like you, any future babies will be delivered by C/S. it's been a hard idea to get used to as I really feel that *mentally* a V-birth would be the best way to heal, but physically it would be extremely risky. I was sad that I might not be able to have the big family I dreamed of (generally not advised to have more than 3 C/S) but at the same time I figured trying natural births might cause so much damage next time that we might never have another how far post-partum are you? are you still getting pain or anything? I was pleasantly surprised at how many options were out there to help. Definitely not in the age where we just have to suck it up and deal with it, anymore 
So I had the surgery, which was a good start, but after that had lots of physiotherapy which really helped as well. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
http://lilypie.com"> 
Angel babes '07 & '10- <3 <3 |
Posted By: mummytobesep08
Date Posted: 01 August 2011 at 10:04am
haha, that's so true! ------------- http://lilypie.com">
http://lilypie.com">
Angel babes '07 & '10- <3 <3 |
Posted By: MuppetsMama
Date Posted: 01 August 2011 at 12:13pm
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So good to hear from other women! I had a botched delivery with my first, she was in perfect position for weeks then right in labour decided to go sideways or something...had an awful 12 hours of labour with rolling contractions (ie. just one big long contraction with no breaks), then 3 hours of pushing before they had to whip out my baby as she was in distress - gave me an extensive epi and cut me three times. My mum in law had horrific births where she nearly died, and even she said she had no idea if they were going to be able to put me back together; she couldnt tell where my leg ended, they cut me so much.
anyway, they resus'd my baby and stitched me up. It wasn't until afterwards when the pain didn't go away that I went for help - sex was agony and I had a constant, dragging sort of pain between my legs. I went to a gyny and she said I had such severe scar tissue on my perinium that she was only 50% sure that reconstruction would have any effect at all.....1 year and 3 months after my babe was born they did it, and it helped a hell of a lot. Even now, 3 years afterwards, it still gets sore sometimes, and I have had to train my brain into not expecting pain with sex. I also got PND that didn't lift until the surgery, so I'm sure there were residual underlying traumatic feelings from the birth. All future births have to be C/S, but I would never want to go through VB again anyway!! I'm glad I did though, in a weird kind of way. I always wanted a big family, but I think I would like to adopt now to grow our family (we have 2 kids now). Mind you, when talking to first time preggy mums, I always stress that it is unusual to have what I (and you guys!) had, and that you can never know how it is going to go. Have any of you tried to talk to the hospital/drs etc to find out what went wrong? I had a sneak peek at my notes once, and they totally glossed over it all!! 
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Posted By: buzylizy
Date Posted: 02 August 2011 at 12:29pm
| MuppetsMama, I agree about being strangely glad to have gone through it. I sit with the same thing. I am terribly upset about what happened and about how I was treated and how wrong it all went in the end but it empowered me in a strange way. After I came through the initial PND (which I did not recognise as such)I felt stronger. And with my second one now the mw agreed that I was not given great care and that my case should have been handled differently. Strangely enough it has given me some closure on the matter and although when I think about it it still upsets me having had a chat to her and getting the reassurance that I was not crazy to have expected a better outcome I am feeling a lot better about it. I don't know where you would find help as I don't know whether a psycologist would be able to help but I do think talking to a different doctor or midwife about it would help. And hanging on to the sense of empowerment that natural birth brings with it that I don't think elective csection brings...which is another paradox as my second will be a csection.... ;-) |
Posted By: InthemiddleMummy
Date Posted: 02 August 2011 at 9:39pm
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Well contrary to popular debate, I felt empowered to have a c/section. im glad I didnt get bullied into another vaginal birth just to save theatre costs or keep up with the "natural Jones"
With 8-9weeks to go before my next baby arrives I still get the old "Oh so you have to have another c/s" Im over it. Why would I want to risk another body damaging vaginal episiotemy 70 odd stitches that had to be done again under GA a year later. Let alone risk brain damage to my baby. My OB/MW/GP all told me I wont push a baby out over 6lb and that Im not made for giving birth. Why should I believe my mother that I should "try" and that Im sick off hearing her dumb stories about how easy her birth were. HOw she had 3 stitches oh yeah she understands what a zillion stithes feels like from ar*ehole to breakfast and back again. I look on the bright side, it took me 1 month to conceive all 3 babys so im consider myself very lucky. I breastfeed. I might not be the vagina birthing type but it shouldnt mean people should judge me to be unlucky to have a c/s. I consider myself lucky to be in this day and age when its a everyday possibility. My pelvis got twisted and the sacrial muscle between the tailbone and pelvis were so damaged I couldnt walk/sleep/.sit without pain for 9months. I didnt drive for 4weeks after VB. (only 2 after cs) Medical insurance and ACC dont cover damage/repairs/physio/chiro/gyno visits to mums from childbirth. I think this needs to change. Ive just had a new friend tell me her very traumatic private experiences from an operative vaginal birth. Its her story to tell but Im so worried for her. Lucky she says her baby is well and thats the man thing. Medical insurance and ACC dont cover damage/repairs/physio/chiro/gyno visits to mums from childbirth. I think this needs to change. |
Posted By: InthemiddleMummy
Date Posted: 02 August 2011 at 9:48pm
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Also meant to say that 5 years since my vb. my tailbone/pelvis is much better but still not what it was before I had her. Ive spent $$$$$$ on physio / chiro / massage/ accupuncture / pilates / fitness trying to remedy my tailbone / pelvis agony. Not to mention the Surgery repair.
my 2nd was born 3 and half years ago via c/s and Ive carried on the various treatments/remedies since having her which is where the bulk of the improvement has happened. Ive just read the North and South Article some very traumatic stories in there from mums with botched VB;s so sad to see babys lost. I consider myself so lucky to tell the tail of our babys birth and survival, and she is very healthy and well, we are blessed, not long after she was born a baby died from a botched ventouse delivery in the neighbouring local town. I vowed never to risk another baby being born by instrumental/operative birth again. as its not just risky for mum it is for bubs too. |
Posted By: mummytobesep08
Date Posted: 05 August 2011 at 2:33pm
It's nice to hear someone so positive about future CS births
I was really upset about having to have a C/S for awhile, mainly because of all the negative things that you hear about them and that attitude of it being a lesser birth (kinda similar to the bottle feeding thing), but realised that there's no way I'd ever go through birth again. So more kids = a C/S! I'm looking forward to experiencing how different it will be Sure it will be sore, as one of my friends say "you feel like you're insides are gonna fall out for the first day" but I can't even imagine how amazing it will be to be concious when my baby is born (even if I'm on the table) and to actually see her for the first time, and be one of the first people to hold her...oh and being better at by around 6 weeks sounds like a dream! I still couldn't get out of bed 3 weeks post-partum
And like you said, why risk all those stitches again? Plus the recovery that may very well not go to plan, AGAIN, and the muscles 'down there' can only be torn and repaired so many times before they would start to get very weak Thankgoodness for C-sections  ------------- http://lilypie.com">
http://lilypie.com">
Angel babes '07 & '10- <3 <3 |
Posted By: chelles
Date Posted: 05 August 2011 at 3:26pm
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Hi Mummytobesep08... I think you'll be really surprised at how well your c-sect goes. I had to have elective c-sect for DD2 and what a difference!!! I was also upset about the fact that I 'had' to have one and wasn't able to have a VB again, but compared to what I went through with DD1 the c-sect was a breeze!
Because it was an elective your body doesn't go into labour so you are fresh and ready to go. Bubs was put straight on my chest so I got skin to skin straight away, she latched on straight away too. I had the c-sect in the morning and that night I was up and in the shower - it was amazing! The recovery was so quick too. My milk came in by day 3 - just like a VB so was no difference there at all. All in all a much better experience physically and mentally than with DD1. Anyway just thought I'd share... I hope you get that experience this time too. All the best :) ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: MuppetsMama
Date Posted: 07 August 2011 at 2:03pm
| I loved my elective c section that I had for my second baby - it was WONDERFUL!! |
Posted By: mummytobesep08
Date Posted: 07 August 2011 at 3:01pm
thanks for that it's so uplifting to hear stories like this. thankgoodness for the internet!!!
You're right, this time will be better (any ridiculous complications aside, of course). I think I do know this, I'm just a bit nervous and it gets the better of me sometimes  ------------- http://lilypie.com">
http://lilypie.com">
Angel babes '07 & '10- <3 <3 |
Posted By: InthemiddleMummy
Date Posted: 17 September 2011 at 9:32pm
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Wondered how everyone is going...
Several conversations lately have really enlightened me as too how difficult it is for people to understand birth trauma when they havent been there themselves. |
Posted By: peachy
Date Posted: 18 September 2011 at 12:19pm
Me too, it has really helped me heal mentally from my traumatic first birth. My elective was a positive and wonderful experience! ------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: HuntersMama
Date Posted: 18 September 2011 at 4:14pm
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DS was born unassisted, but came out with his hand in a fist next to his head. I tore quite badly (apparantely 2nd degree, but im thinking more like 3rd degree), which took my midwife the best part of an hour to stitch up. Took ages to heal, and was very painful but I was just told it would take time etc.
As a result id be pretty nervous to go through it again! ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: chelles
Date Posted: 18 September 2011 at 5:44pm
Exactly how I feel too! ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: mummyofprinces
Date Posted: 21 September 2011 at 12:41pm
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I think its important to not only know the risks associated with Vaginal Births but also the
risks in C-Sections... Both of these things get glossed over... I have had 3 em sections and I have lasting side effects from those. By lower back is stuffed from overcompensating from my stomach muscles beign destroyed by a surgeons knife. There has been nerve damamge or scar tissue pressing on nerves around my bowel which means I dont get pre warning for bowel motions, when I need to go its NOW or be warned! My uterus is covered in adhesions, with my bladder now fused to it and my abdominal wall which causes sharp pain when I need to pee and am not near a toilet. I have adhesions pressing down low to my cervix which makes sex uncomfortable and cycle dependant, quite painful. My risk of ectopic pregnancy has increased because of the scar tissue on my fallopian tubes. I find exercise difficult as the I get a fair amount of pain in my abdomen due to the adhesions and weakend muscles... Not all trauma comes from VB and C-Sections themselves can cause a fair whack of trauma themselves... I appreciate where you ladies are coming from but I really dont like sections being glossed over as better choice than a Vaginal Birth. BOTH come risks... -------------   
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Posted By: lilfatty
Date Posted: 21 September 2011 at 2:56pm
 ------------- Mummy to Issy (3) and Elias (18 months) I did it .. 41 kgs gone! From flab to fab in under a year  http://www.femininefitness.co.nz/category/blog - LFs weight blog
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Posted By: Plushie
Date Posted: 21 September 2011 at 4:50pm
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Posted By: minxynzl
Date Posted: 21 September 2011 at 7:48pm
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Good balance to this discussion MummyofPrincess. C sections come with their own unique but very real set of risks.
I VB-ed a 10 pound boy at 20yrs of age with no assistance but yes a large tear. And 20 years later I birthed a 8 & 1/2 pound boy with forcep delivery required due to position. It is natural to take some time to come to terms with any birth and I think it's clear from this thread that in some cases counselling is a very valid option. I'd hate to think that a first time pregnant mother has unnecessary fear put into her by reading angst that may perhaps be better managed by a professional. But that is the danger with open forums. ------------- http://alterna-tickers.com"> 
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Posted By: Babe
Date Posted: 21 September 2011 at 8:00pm
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I think it has alot to do with how your LMC handles things too. I VB'd 2 boys both over 9", first got stuck for hooouuuurs with an erratic HB then arrived in a massive rush, I had a fully-prolapsed cervix, he had his hand up by his head, yet thanks to the way my MW handled the pushing process I had like 5 stitches from where his nail caught me and that was that. Second time round another semi-prolapsed cervix, hand by the head, half a bag of waters that jammed him halfway down and had to be broken, yet only 3 stitches from his nail that time. Both times there was a strong push for intervention, I had serious labour trauma with both and there were concerns about the boys health yet I didn't have the problems I've read in here so thats my 2c worth - sometimes yep your body clearly isn't made for pushing out babies, but other times it comes down to the people you have on your team and how they help you through the process... -------------   
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Posted By: High9
Date Posted: 21 September 2011 at 8:47pm
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Agree with Babe. Csection was a possibility got me. For some reason my mw didn't think I'd be able to birth a baby bigger than 7lbs and that DD wouldn't be bigger than 7lbs (the latter made sense as DP and I were both about 7lbs at birth (DP was 3 weeks early but 7lbs 1/2oz and I was 1 week overdue and 6lbs 11oz) but I don't think it was my size (I am 5ft - 5ft 2" and about 52kg so not big or small imo.) But anyway she came a week early and MW didn't think I'd go overdue but I got a bit stressed during labour what with all the vagina checks to see how far dilated I was, etc... I ended up needing to be induced part way through labour. That was fine, things sped up from there and then it was time to push almost 2 hours later. But I pushed for just over an hour and towards the end my DD pooed and then her heart rate started dropping with every contraction so my MW said I needed to get her out in X minutes or she'd have to arrange a csection. Took ages for her head to come out (and it wasn't out at this point) but when it was MW just pulled her out straight away and she was fine but covered in poo and still pooing when she was placed on me. I tore, I don't know how bad because it isn't mentioned in my notes but I did require stitches and tbh I had a great birth despite what happened. My only problem was after the birth and DP not being able to stay or visit. My recovery was fine but I did have issues with my stitches dissolving too quickly at one spot and then not quick enough at the other end and the result was stitches under scar tissue that was so itchy!
However, I had an operation in May of this year - abdominal (gallbladder removal) - bearing in mind I was put fully under; but anyway it was key hole but my surgeon and gp both said that recovery is similar to a csection and tbh I had more problems with that than my VB. Wounds getting infected and requiring ABs, possibility of hernia, wasn't able to lift anything for 6 weeks that was heavier than 10kg and even now I am fully healed I still get pain where the scars are (especially the long scar under my belly button). It was hard and I wasn't expecting a recovery that long or for the first week barely being able to move much because of abdominal pain! Both come with risks and neither should be taken lightly. At the end of the day we just want what is best for us and our baby. I think it is best to go into labour with an open mind of the end result no matter what birth you are up to. ETA: I do imagine an elective would be 'easier' than an emergency - time to prepare, etc. But I have nothing to base that on so that is just my opinion and I would rather an elective to an emergency! ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: buzylizy
Date Posted: 22 September 2011 at 1:40pm
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As a side note. Emergency C Sections are less desirable than planned ones. So if you think you are going to end up there rather plan one. The procedure is different.
Remember that tearing badly also comes with the risk of damage to your anal muscles making the urge to go an immedate one...I know. I don't believe the tread will scare first timers any more than what they already are. I believe they should be informed about the risks of VB which is often glossed over. My friend had a baby girl with not a single stitch. My mom had both kids with no issues. I believe that people know that complications are the exception not the rule but should still be informed. I saw my hopsital notes and DS should have been an emergency section but the theater was busy...comforting to know I had to suffer unnecessarily and he was put at risk because a theater was busy. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: InthemiddleMummy
Date Posted: 22 September 2011 at 3:52pm
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1253013/Forceps-killed-baby-doctors-using-them.html
Such a sad tragic story. |
Posted By: MuppetsMama
Date Posted: 22 September 2011 at 3:58pm
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It's very interesting reading everyone's views and experiences.
I had to have an elective second time around, as instructed by my gyno surgeon/specialist. She told me if I gave birth naturally again then they would not be able to repair the damage (I'm honestly not being melodramatic when I say I would be in chronic pain from a poorly healed perinium for the rest of my life, and NO SEX ever again without a lot of pain and difficulty - I was 19!). So although I appreciate and very much admire all of you who were able to give birth naturally second time around (seriously, a huge congrats for even trying!), it wasn't an option available to me and in my case, it was much safer for everyone involved - including baby - to go the way of ELCS. I think it's important to remember that it's not just that everyone is different, but that every birth that everyone has is different, and I don't believe there is any hard and fast rule about all this at all 
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Posted By: InthemiddleMummy
Date Posted: 22 September 2011 at 8:27pm
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well said muppetsmama!!
vaginally does not always equal naturally A FISSURE is not the same problem as a recto-vaginal obstetric FISTULA that has to be repaired under GA. Fissures can disappear with over the counter cream. Esp when concerning everyone involved My DH and I will not risk another one of OUR babies the head trauma induced by a ventouse & high NB forceps delivery ever again. At least with a c/s its just me that has to recover, no damage to bubby. I had to explain the reasons to my own mother for the umptenth million time in 5years again yesterday why im having ELCS in a few weeks, she has absolutely no understanding of what my body went thru and still thinks and said yesterday that if she had been in the birth room with me quote "wouldnt have all the trouble and would have been able to push bubs out myself" UM HOW WOULD SHE HAVE HELPED???, I had an OB and 2 MW in with me thruout my labour, head MW of maternity unit also was there off and on, OB has 30yr experince, MW no1 had 14years and MW no2 had 22years. |
Posted By: Faffer
Date Posted: 22 September 2011 at 9:46pm
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Girls Rock that story IS tragic, as is ANY story involving the death of a baby. However, if we're going to start throwing links around I'd be remiss if I didn't link to this
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16948717 - abstract on infant and neonatal mortality for primary caesarean and vaginal births to women with "no indicated risk," with a nice http://www.womens-health.org.nz/index.php?page=voluntary-caesareans-risky - summary of the abstract here suggesting an increased risk of infant mortality of NEARLY 3 TIMES in voluntary (ie: elective) caesarean section births versus vaginal births in those pregnancies where there are no risk factors. I won't link to studies outlining the increased risks to the mother as those are, I believe, more widely accepted as fact. I understand in your case, as in others, previous trauma both physical and emotional may dictate that caesarean section is in fact the best course of action and I wish you a wonderful upcoming birth experience and a speedy recovery. Nonetheless I feel strongly that in an open forum like this, where first time mothers come for information and reassurance, a well-balanced and hearty debate is in the best interests of all concerned. I support any woman's right to birth in the manner she chooses, I just prefer MY choice to be based on scientific analysis rather than emotional tabloid scaremongering. Just to clarify, DD was born via emergency c-section. After 43 hours of labour and due to her breech positioning I made the safest choice for her. C-section without a doubt has it place and given the same circumstances and the lack of professionals experienced in vaginal breech birthing in New Zealand I believe I would make the same decision again. -------------  
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Posted By: Shelt
Date Posted: 23 September 2011 at 1:14pm
To be honest, while I agree that a balanced debate is in the best interests of everyone, I thought this thread was not about debating the risks for and against VB vs C-section but just a place where people who have had significant birth trauma could talk about their experiences. If I was a pregnant 1st time mum I probably wouldn't open a thread about birth trauma expecting to hear about everyone's lovely experiences. And, not that it matters, but despite all the issues I had with getting DD out next time (if there ever is one!) I will be attempting to VB again. Not because I don't believe in c-sections but just because that would be the right decision to me (as long as it was also the right decision for the baby). ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: InthemiddleMummy
Date Posted: 23 September 2011 at 1:50pm
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Yes topic was definitely started with the thoughts along discussing how other mums have coped from the trauma from long/operative vaginal births...if you had read the opening paragraph.
Its not about un-nesccasry c/s or the vbac/cs debate at all. I wondered if other mums had seeked counciling or talked to GP/MW/OB about there experiences I wondered if other mums had gone on to have successful births of well children (no brain damage or loss of oxygen to baby and no problems for mum either) or never ever had any more children because of there traumatic births. I wonderd if anyone else had there bladder not work for 6-8weeks after a vaginal birth and have to have a catheter in for weeks faffer I dont see your point in putting a link onto planned c/s verses vaginal birth with no indicated risks. An operative vaginal birth is that assisted by forceps or ventouse and that is why I put a link onto a very sad story about a botched forceps delivery. I found we were not away of the problems involved with an assisted delivery, no anti natel group prepares you for birth trauma/operative births that I know off. |
Posted By: Babe
Date Posted: 23 September 2011 at 4:06pm
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I think the whole 'I'll never have another VB, I'll be going for an elective' comments were probably what set the debate side of things going. While I'm very lucky to have had 2 VBs that have been successful I know quite a few other mothers IRL who have had terrible, damaging and traumatic VBs and yet have still gone on to have great VB experiences. There ARE cases where its not fair, healthy or responsible to have a VB birth but there are far more cases where fear on the part of the mother and/or incompetence on the part of the midwife (no matter how many years experience she's had) results in an elective c-section when it could have been both possible and healing for the mother to try another VB.
IMO thats kinda where this thread started to draw attention anyway. -------------
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Posted By: Plushie
Date Posted: 23 September 2011 at 6:18pm
| Edit: Just....pah! |
Posted By: SophieD
Date Posted: 23 September 2011 at 7:35pm
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[/QUOTE]
To be honest, while I agree that a balanced debate is in the best interests of everyone, I thought this thread was not about debating the risks for and against VB vs C-section but just a place where people who have had significant birth trauma could talk about their experiences. [/QUOTE] That is what I thought too. There is certainly a place for elective c sections and like successful positive empowering VB's there can also be successful positive and empowering sections too and it is good to hear about those as sometimes they are the best option. for me personally, the potential risks invovled with another vb outweigh the risks involved with a c section, so it is elective c section all the way for me. I know what risks I can live with and the ones I cant. Again I have to say that I am super glad we live in these times where there is choice  ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Aroha11
Date Posted: 23 September 2011 at 7:35pm
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Wow I think things have gone off track with this thread or heading somewhere unpleasant.
So here is my story sorry it is a bit all over the place.. I recently gave birth in June after an emergency c-section after 32 hrs of painful labour with contractions 10 to 5 mins apart from the start, when my little boy was three weeks old I was diagnosed with traumatic stress due to the way my labour went. Although I had an emergency c-section I couldn't fault the surgery and the medical staff that were around at the time including my midwife. So I cannot relate to many of you ladies who had traumatic births / ops and my sympathy and healing wishes go out to you all. My trauma was related to nearly being sent home and if it hadn't been for my midwife who voiced her opinion to keep me there and me being nearly 2weeks overdue my little boy might not be here. As he went into distress after 32hrs of labour. What I also felt or feel empty about was missing out on holding my little boy as he was whisked away to NICU and not really knowing what was going on for the next couple of days and how and when I could go and see him. All of this was on top of us trying for 2 years prior so I just couldn't believe we nearly lost him. My story seems a little less stressful than most others but I think everyone deals with stress or lack of control differently. What I feel that mums to be are not told is what could go wrong and how it could go wrong and what to do when you feel you are not being listened to. What your rights are in terms of wanting medical intervention when YOU want it not when they think you need it. If we ever have another baby I will be doing an elective c-section as I cannot go through that again, but at the moment the pain and trauma of the birth has left me feeling that there is no way for a second baby for us. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: Hayz001
Date Posted: 23 September 2011 at 7:51pm
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Wow Faffer, I had planned what I wanted to say on this thread and came back and re-read and you'd said it much more eloquently than I ever could! I agree that it's not necessarily what this thread was started for, but as these things have a habit of doing, it can morph and change and go off on tangents now and again - and I think in this case it was worth pulling up some of the vocal "pro c section-ers" on their tendency to gloss over the hard facts about c section versus v birth (something that has concerned me in other threads also)
Also well said Bowie - I totally agree that this should not be a place for one upman-ship of trauma. I think the fact that someone chooses to post in here generally means they feel they have had some degree of trauma - it shouldn't need to meet some pre-determined limit of severity to 'count' for inclusion here. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: Hayz001
Date Posted: 23 September 2011 at 7:53pm
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oh and now you've gone and edited Bowie! ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: SophieD
Date Posted: 23 September 2011 at 8:09pm
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hmmm, ok so here is a question for you lovely ladies then (and this is carrying on the somewhat off topic convo of sections and vbs, sorry )
if there was a thread about vb's or vbac's etc and it glossed over some of the risks involved and was sharing positive stories, would it be fair for people to share some not so great stories and discuss the risks involved in that thread? sorry, for continuing a discussion that I'm sure this thread was not meant to be, I'm just curious as to why we always need to bring up the risks in a section but not in vb. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Shelt
Date Posted: 23 September 2011 at 8:40pm
Worth "pulling up" the more vocal pro-c-sectioners? To be honest this makes me a bit angry. And I know this really isn't the point and normally I wouldn't bother to continue in a debate like this once it has gone AWOL but really.... I think these ladies were just stating that in their opinions, after having gone through traumatic VBs that an elective was a good option for them. There are plenty of good reasons for and against both options, but at the end of the day each person has a different situation and the trauma of VB should not be discounted in considering how to birth the next baby. And, nothing I have read here suggests to me that there is one upmanship going on in terms of the amount of trauma. I read people's comments as simply descriptions of what had happened to them. I don't think my trauma is greater or lesser than what happened to anyone else, and someone else may have infact coped better than I did with what happened. For me, reading other people's stories has actually been quite interesting and enlightening, and its been nice to know that I'm not the only one who had such a horrible birth experience. I know lots of people who have had great experiences (VB and csect) but I dont know that many who went through something like me and its nice to talk to people that understand. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Plushie
Date Posted: 23 September 2011 at 8:41pm
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Sorry Hayz, i didnt want to get into a fight really! The poster i took exception too obviously has her own issues to deal with and sh*t slinging on the internet will not help her nor me!
SophieD, interesting question! I think for the vast majority the risks associated with a vaginal birth are significantly less then the risks associated with a c-section. Obviously for some woman/most of the posters in this thread the opposite is true but i suspect that is the exception rather then the rule. I was given the option for a c-section (low lying placenta + large baby) but chose to try for a vaginal birth as FOR ME (and just me, we're all different) the risks i faced birthing vaginally were far more accectable then the ones i faced were i to have a c-section. It was important to me that i had a natural drug free birth and i'm proud of myself for achieving that, rips scars and all but i don't think that his birth via c-section would have been any less magical. Or that anyone else here has had a 'lesser' birth in anyway because they've had a c-section. A baby being born is magic no matter where it comes out in short! |
Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 23 September 2011 at 8:58pm
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For some reason, I seem to follow the 'second birth after a tough VB / emergency c-section' threads with interest - which makes no sense, since my son's birth was fairly straightforward, apart from a nasty tear. I think it's a combination of the fact that a) I was really worried before the birth that if things went pear-shaped and I ended up with a c-section, I'd feel really ripped off and have a bit of trouble coping with it, and b) my Mum's just had a series of operations fixing the damage done by a number of c-sections (none on which she regrets, since they were essential for the safe birth of my brothers and sisters). Anyway, that's just a long intro to explain why I'm checking in here when I don't 'belong'.
Anyway - my theory is that there are invisible lines as to how far it's OK to push your opinion, and what's right for you. It's OK to have strong opinions, it's not OK to come across in a way that suggests you think others *should* subscribe to them. When a thread (be it about breastfeeding, imms, nappies or c-sections) starts to 'feel' that way - whether it was intentional or not - people start to get itchy and want to balance it. It's just how it works -------------   
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Posted By: InthemiddleMummy
Date Posted: 24 September 2011 at 11:37am
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Its not about who has had the worst or the best birth, its about how it was for you and discussing how you coped with the trauma what ever that may be.
A friend of mine had her babies in 70mins from start to finish and found she had shakes and postnatel depression/lack of bonding as it happened so quickly she blanked it all out/cant remember a thing. Was in hosp for 12days following birth. No physical trauma to her or bubs, but emotional trauma non the least. Trauma from birthing not only affects mums and bubs, but husbands/dads/partners and immediately family. I know it wasnt easy for my DH to see what Ive gone thru in the last 5years from having DD via VB. It wasnt easy to see his love of his life getting pulled down the bed as the traction was applied via forceps,legs in stirips. OB with legs up against the end of the bed for "traction", MW holding her "steady" and firstborn dragged from me via high NB forceps as large as a mans hands and forearms up there pullng on her head. The sound when the ventouse popped off her head was something I will never get over, I open my eyes to see the "well built" OB, staggering back across the room and the ventouse fling over her shoulder, 2 midwifes scrambling, I seriously thought her head had come off the noise was so loud and haunting. I have friends whom have birthed there babies with either ventouse or low forceps and had no issues at all, I didnt seem to cope so well with it. so that is why I posted to see how others coped. Or if I was the one and only that found ventouse/forceps delivery not an option for us if we went onto have another baby. I certainly didnt intend a slang fest, I was looking for support. |
Posted By: Aroha11
Date Posted: 24 September 2011 at 4:52pm
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Girls Rock - What I found useful was writing my story and telling people about it. However strangely enough I found it easier telling people who I don't know that well or who have been through it themselves rather than those who are close friends - don't know why but it is just that way.
I know that there are some things I will never forget about the night and they do still come back as flash backs or at night. Hope this forum turns back into a chat about trauma and support. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Plushie
Date Posted: 24 September 2011 at 6:22pm
| Aroha, your story is very sad. Did you know your midwife would be able to connect you with someone to talk to about your feelings? Also plunket runs something called the 'postnatel adjustment program' you might find useful as well. |
Posted By: blossombaby
Date Posted: 24 September 2011 at 7:51pm
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Girls Rock your birth sounds very much like mine .. I had one of the most tramatic births my midwife has had and shes been one for 30 years. Long story short long labour, baby in wrong position, ended up with pain relief that infact made it worse - a dr who wouldn't offer any assitance eg forceps vontuse and wanted me to have c section but I rathered them then a c section - Hubby said it felt like he was given birth, baby aftered via vontuse on the last atempt tho they had a room etc all reayd for on E/csection - no pain relif when being stiched which was ment to be done in theatre ... i'm crying think about it and it was a year ago - anyhow I am so tramatis by the birth and how evrything went that i will not have any more children and people keep saying oh your'll forget about it but I am positive i will never forget it - in saying that they have quick labours no rips etc. very hard at the time for me 2 i wanted a water birth and a very private birth - ended up with a very large amount of drs, nurses, mws etc there.
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Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 24 September 2011 at 8:01pm
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It wasnt till after i had my second child that i realised what a good birth could be like. My first ended in a ventouse and with blood everywhere, but i thought it was a great birth lol! Little did i know.
Not only are all babies and births different but all women deal with and recognise trauma in different ways. I personally find it a little bit sad that some women can be put off trying for a VB second time around because of their first, but i completely understand why. There are definietly lots of of things that can go with c sections elective or not but lets face it giving birth isnt really a walk in the park anyway. ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker"> 
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Posted By: T_Rex
Date Posted: 24 September 2011 at 8:28pm
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To be honest, I don't think it IS helpful to publicise the potential complications from a VB to first-timers. Once you are pregnant, it's not like you have any choice but to give birth! And for the majority of mums and babies, VB is the safest option (it would be great if OB/MWs could get better at identifying those for whom it's not the best choice so that those awful complications could be avoided entirely - it certainly sounds like they should have intervened earlier and kinder for you girlsrock). But given they can't currently identify those women beforehand, VB first up is the general recommendation as for the majority of people that's the best choice. I don't think it's beneficial to terrify those women with the what ifs prior to labour - that can only increase the chances of a stressed mum experiencing a slow labour and as a result a cascade of intervention, all of which ups the chances of the bad stuff happening.
Second time round, especially if you've had a rough time the first time, I don't think anyone can really judge how you choose to respond to your own experiences. For me, my response was to be really proactive about doing everything I can to get a good VB the second time (hopefully it works!!), but that's just me. I don't expect everyone to respond in the same way, and I have no issue with those who've opted for a caesarean in response. But I expect the same respect in return - it doesn't mean I feel any less stink about how my first birth went, it just means I'm dealing with it differently. That said, i do think talking about the trauma with people who can support you is a great idea - I just try not to let it be pregnant ladies cos it's not helpful to them in my view ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: blossombaby
Date Posted: 24 September 2011 at 9:18pm
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I dont have anything against c/s but for me that wasn't the best choice and i beleived my body cos birth my baby one way or another with the help via V/b - however I would never judge anyone who had a c/s. I guess the main reason I didn't want c/s is stiches freak me out and I wanted to avoid the time it takes to recover after c/s :)
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Posted By: HoneybunsMa
Date Posted: 24 September 2011 at 10:33pm
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I thought I would mention that my antenatal classes did mention forceps and the ventouse and that the baby would have marks on their heads and hematomas etc.
I didn't have a traumatic birth, I did have a very long and tiring one and was emotionally stressed out which I don't wish upon anyone and that made my labour longer then it should have been. Dd was stuck so far down in the birth canal for so long and sideways and she had a big fat head and corners that she was born with a hematoma, I imagine it wasn't quite as bad as a ventouse baby but it was pretty bad. ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker"> 
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Posted By: InthemiddleMummy
Date Posted: 25 September 2011 at 12:48pm
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blossombaby
For me the c/s healed so much quicker and were less discomfortable than the vagina/rectal stitching after VB, personally stitches freak me out more in the neather regions than in the tummy. My mum was like oh yeah I had 3 stitches, they were sore. Im sure they were, but she cannot begin to understand what its like to recover from 75-100 stitches in that VB region so she was no support for me this I struggled with I guess as she wasnt a good support for me, I searched for support from others. she was just pissed off she didnt get to come to my labour/births Honeybunsma bless wee bubba heamatoma is not nice! |
Posted By: amme_eilyk
Date Posted: 26 September 2011 at 12:42am
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We were also told about forceps/ventouse risks in antenatal class and shown a video of a baby being born that way. We were also shown a video of a vb and a cs, the cs looked a lot rougher on the baby than the vb in the way that they were pulled out.
I wouldnt say that I had an overly traumatic birth, I did have an extended pushing phase as I didnt stretch and had an episiotomy and ended up with a 3rd degree tear needing stiches. Whilst recovering from an episiotomy isnt my favourite thing to do, with the next baby I intend on having one. The recovery really does vary between people. |
Posted By: SophieD
Date Posted: 26 September 2011 at 8:02pm
Totally! I think it also depends on the baby and how much support mum gets in the first few weeks. in my case, unfortunately breastfeeding was a long protracted exercise each time and neither my DD nor I could quite get the hang of breastfeeding lying down, so it involved alot of sitting which I don't think helped my healing or my mental state! the more support and rest mum has the better any trauma heals and for me it wasn't so much the birth that was the traumatic experience (although I guess it was in that it was the cause of everything) as I was heavily medicated and can't really remember much, BUT the recovery was awful both mentally and physically. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: mummyofprinces
Date Posted: 26 September 2011 at 10:09pm
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I only said what I said because this is an open forum. Anyone can stumble across it and to new mum reading this i would freaking out and heading to nearest OB asking for an elective.
I also felt that those who had suffered this trauma needed to know that you can suffer serious trauma from a c-section (emergency, crash or elective) and there IS risk to your baby during a section. I was not trying to start a debate, I was merely trying point out that BOTH come with risks of serious damage. What exactly is horror stories during ANC going to achieve? It will worry mums who will then go into labour scared which will increase their adrenalin which will increase their pain, thus causing a spiral where risks of trauma and sections INCREASE! Oh and forceps may still be needed during a section FYI.. so the forcep delivery risk is still there. Now I know that was not the intention of this thread and I know you all suffered greatly and need support and a place to chat so apologise for my rant but having suffered my own trauma from the glorious c-section I feel that for new mums stumbling across this thread they needed a balance. The most important thing you can do is have a GREAT LMC and great birth support as your advocacy! -------------
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Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 27 September 2011 at 4:04pm
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mummyofprinces some would argue that knowing all the bad things that could go wrong is a good thing. Forewarned is forearmed! ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker">
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Posted By: High9
Date Posted: 27 September 2011 at 4:30pm
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Yeah as a first timer I kinda liked knowing the potential possibilities of what could go wrong jic. Hence why before DD was born we discussed Csection and DP didn't think he could be in the room at the time and my mum thought the same so MIL said she'd come with me so I had some sort of plan. But DP was there when I gave birth and 'it was the most amazing thing' he kept saying and that if I had needed a csection he would have come too. But I hope that makes sense... Because I think it's good to be prepared for any scenario... ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Shelt
Date Posted: 27 September 2011 at 7:42pm
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TBH I was well aware of the risks of both c-sections and VBs - my antenatal class (well what I got to see of it before going into labour 7 weeks early) was very thorough. I also read obsessively about birth and babies the whole time I was pregnant. None of it made any difference though when DD decided she wanted to be out before Christmas (was due 16 January and went into labour at the begining of December) and upside down with her arm in the wrong place.
Sometimes, no matter what you know or do, stuff just happens and you gotta deal with it. None of my prior knowledge about positions for labour - only one of which I could do for various reasons, different drugs - none of which I had, and the birth process really helped. I can honestly say there I feel there was nothing I could have done differently that would have helped. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: SophieD
Date Posted: 27 September 2011 at 9:35pm
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I don't think our AN classes really discussed what could happen, I may have missed that class though :-)
TBH I dont think that I would have been in any frame of mind to listen anyway, I was waaayyyy to excited about having a baby to care about that information! I guess the hard part about it all is that is there really any appropriate time/place to talk about what could/did happen? totally agree that AN classes probably aren't the best place and maybe first time mums don't really need to discuss it in depth, expecially since it is not what happens to the majority of people. The hard thing for me is that there really was no one to talk to about it. its not like you sit down (or stand as the case may be ) with a cuppa and discuss the most embarassing parts of your body.
you can't really discuss it with mums to be as that is not really fair, your AN group (while they may be lovely) are all dealing with the first few weeks of being new mums themselves (and to be honest we were all so in love with our babies, we only ever talked about them and your friends and family...eh kinda embarassing if you ask me!
it is an isolating little bubble when all you can think about is constant pain, freaking out at bowel movements, wondering if sex is ever going to feel good again and thinking that your most private parts have changed beyond belief! ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: SophieD
Date Posted: 27 September 2011 at 9:39pm
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not to mention that you feel like you should be in this state of euphoria given that you have just had a beautiful baby, and all you can think about is how painful it is and the fact that it might mean that your neither regions will never be the same again... ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Shelt
Date Posted: 28 September 2011 at 8:28am
I totally agree with this Sophie. And I found that while there was a few people around who shared how their birth went (AN coffee group), most people's generally went well and I felt like I couldn't share what had happened to me so I just glossed over it a bit. I think some people thought I was exaggerating things a bit and it made me wonder if I had built it up worse in my mind, then I got my notes from the midwife and it was all there in detail which matched my recollection of what happened. I was lucky in that I could talk to my mum and sisters who were there at the birth. But I did find what happened quite isolating, which is why I had a session of counselling in the end. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: InthemiddleMummy
Date Posted: 28 September 2011 at 12:51pm
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Just wondered if anyone else been diagonised with CPD cephalopelvic disproportion?
I was told after DD1's birth that I have this and a large/prominant sacral/coccyx which what is caused her to be brow/forehead/face presentated and posterior and stuck so high in pelvis. The next day the MW & OB admitted they failed to diagnose babys unusual presentation / position when I was in labour and were shocked when she came out face /forehead / brow first as it is really rare. They said if they had realised she was in that position they would never have used the ventouse extraction as it is designed for the back of the head, not the forehead/brow. They thought I just wasn't pushing hard enuf. I was pushing like the baby was guna fly to australia believe me. Anyways so they said that I really needed to seriously consider if I went onto have any more children as Im not made for natural childbirth and if I did it would be best to have an elective c/s as 99.9% chance of emergency forceps or c/s if they baby was over 6lb (dd was 6lb11)it And anyway so thats my reasons for needing an elective c/s, We should perhaps stopped at one child, but being that we live in this marvelous world of modern science we made the informed decesion to go ahead and have more children knowing they would be c/s deliveries. Im happy with that I dont feel "ripped off" to not experience drug free vaginal birth, We feel blessed to have conceived easily and have we 2 healthy well we girls and another bubby due any day. My trauma to my body as the topic started was physically difficult for me to get over, and the damage wasnt just from the forceps/episiotemy it was the damage/cracking to my pelvis/lower back and sacral joint muscles and coccyx bone from DD being stuck for so long. yes C/s have there risks and I didnt start this post to scare 1st time mothers at all! I just wanted to talk to other mums and see how they coped with things, like did they go to chiro or physio or councelling etc |
Posted By: InthemiddleMummy
Date Posted: 28 September 2011 at 12:53pm
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SophieD
LOL I was always the one standing at coffee group too, lol a soft comfy couch was a nightmare or pain compared to standing, you gotta be there to understand aye! |
Posted By: Shelt
Date Posted: 28 September 2011 at 1:19pm
I had a blow up ring to sit on for 3 months! it hurt too much to sit down and the ring spread the pressure. It was embarassing to take it out in public but I had to sit down for ages to BF (prem baby who sucked at latching and took ages and ages and ages to feed) so worth the funny looks. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: TheKelly
Date Posted: 28 September 2011 at 9:45pm
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Just wondering,those who suffered a traumatic vaginal birth,were you allowed to stay longer in hospital,(say a week) or did they push you out when it suited them,not really taking much notice of your condition? ------------- 
http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: Plushie
Date Posted: 29 September 2011 at 8:44am
| I stayed a week kelly, but you already knew that. Though i think that was more to do with breastfeeding issues then trauma issues. THOUGH Ds was a crap bfeeder because his head was all banged up, he too was born brow/face first, had a giant bruise on the side of his head and a big ridge where he'd been stuck/banging against my pelvis so was probably too sore to feed (Lactation consultants view not mine). It sounds like i got lucky, Girls Rock since there is a 1 and 3 chance we could have had the same OB, my midwife was onto it and didnt invite them in! |
Posted By: InthemiddleMummy
Date Posted: 29 September 2011 at 9:55am
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Bowie
I dont know who or where you are but Im not naming the OB on this thread, its not her fault, she is very experienced in her field (like 25-30years) and did everything very urgently in the birthing room and so did the 2 MWs. I dont blame them at all, its just one of those things, they mis-diagonsed the presentation. I feel if I had been offered a scan in labour perhaps this would of helped but who knows cant turn back time but can move forward and I am trying my best too. Not everyone is made for childbirth, but at least Im alive to tell the tail unlike my aunty who died in childbirth along with her baby. very sad. TheKelly I think it depends on the hospital and how busy they are I guess. I stayed 5nights after VB, 6 nights after c/s and who knows with this next bubby due any day by c/s, I will take each day as it comes, and wont go home until we are both ready, that could be day 3 or day 7 |
Posted By: MuppetsMama
Date Posted: 29 September 2011 at 9:58am
| I stayed a week, but it was due to bubs being born with congenital pneomonia (sp?!) (not picked up before birth) and she was on antibiotics. |
Posted By: TheKelly
Date Posted: 29 September 2011 at 10:45am
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Ok..so 5 days seems to be pretty normal then.
My friend's mum is pushing for mum's to be able to stay up to a week if need be,her daughter (my friend) got a blood clot resulting from her labour that had symptoms at 5 days but she was already home by then and it wasn't picked up until 2 weeks later,when it was too late...I wondered if mum's were allowed to recuperate in hospital for longer if things may be picked up/dealt with sooner,but I guess it depends on what kind of trauma has been done and how obvious it is at first. -------------
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Posted By: Shelt
Date Posted: 29 September 2011 at 1:15pm
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I was lucky in that the hospital tried to push me out and my midwife stood up for me and I was allowed to stay till there was a room available in SCBU for me to room in with my baby. I had very high BP and major odema (on verge of pre-eclampsia) and had to monitored for the first three days anyway, after that the hospital sent a doctor to assess and try to discharge me. Luckily my MW had said that might happen and told me to ring her ASAP if it did. Then she worked with SCBU (my daughter was 6 weeks prem) to try and hold me on the ward till there was a rooming in room available. Orginally SCBU said only one more night in there but I got 5 I think coz DD lost a lot of weight once I was trying to feed her and needed a bit more medical care. So in total I got 12 nights - 2 in antenatal, 5 in post natal and 5 in a room in SCBU.
In saying that - the hospital asked for me to go home earlier than that (after 2 days) even though my BP was still not normal. Then they made it very hard for me to be there - they placed me in a shared room at the very far end of the ward about as far away as you could get from SCBU and I had to trek up and down the hallways back and forth to express and feed my baby. Which I think was part of the reason my episitomy stiches ripped. It was very stressful being in a room with a bunch of mothers who had their babies with them, and the mothers came and went every day or so. I didn't get any sleep on the ward and felt very isolated as my baby was prem and very sick at one point and I was in a room with a bunch of ladies who all had normal healthy babies (all of whom cried alot as babies do). Sorry for the long post but I think part of the trauma for me was the way I was treated afterwards, not by my MW and the neo-natal nurses who were very understanding, but the post natal ward nurses. And the continual stream of people into the room who asked where my baby was (including the nurses when the shifts changed and the orderlies). ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: InthemiddleMummy
Date Posted: 29 September 2011 at 2:11pm
I think that choice of 7days would be an excellent starting point. In the old days it was 14days and husbands/families in the 1950's coped with all the kids at home to look after etc. I do think that longer time in hospital might help establishing b/f (if thats what mum wants to do or dry up if they dont) and get over the 5day blues/hormonal changes and so on. I read somewhere cant remember now that woman are working too late in their pregnancies and returning home too soon from hospital and expected to be 100% normal doing all the chores/jobs etc a few days later and its putting too much pressure on many mums and may lead to Postnatel. I just cant remember where maybe it was a doco I watched. TheShelt Oh that sounds rough! All that treaking up the hallway. Ouch Ouch on the tender regions for sure, had me wincing reading bringing back memories, the shuffle. |
Posted By: SophieD
Date Posted: 29 September 2011 at 8:04pm
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I stayed 5 days too. Baby was absolutely fine, it was all my trauma and complications that kept us in :-) ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: mummytobesep08
Date Posted: 03 October 2011 at 9:26pm
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some good points been put forward about the C/S
For me, I find the risks of C/S are brought up in every.single.bit.of.info that you get about them, yet I hadn't even heard of the complications I had had, and that most certainly did NOT help with my recovery as I was totally taken unawares and felt like a freak and failure as no-one else has this happen etc. I do think it's ironic that, for myself and some other mums in here, it's LESS risky to have a C/S even though the stats for, say, mum dying during the birth process or hemorrhage, are actually higher for a C/S. I feel if it were more balanced not just in a thread like this on a website, but also before birth eg AN classes, at least for those of us who did have a traumatic vaginal birth could know a bit about it. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
http://lilypie.com">
Angel babes '07 & '10- <3 <3 |
Posted By: mummytobesep08
Date Posted: 03 October 2011 at 9:28pm
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I stayed 5 days too- must be the magic number lol!- though I had been in 2 nights before DD was born. The lactation lady wanted me to stay another night but I broke down and my mum stepped up and told them we were going. Baby was fine, just my trauma issues that had us still in- side effects from the blood transfusions and stuff
bearing in mind this is the hospital where mums get moved out 3 hours after a normal birth, or 2 nights after a C/S, it did feel weird to stay as long and I felt a lot of pressure to go home from most of the staff. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
http://lilypie.com">
Angel babes '07 & '10- <3 <3 |
Posted By: MuppetsMama
Date Posted: 04 October 2011 at 9:10am
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mummytobe - slightly OT but seriously, 3 HOURS?? That's crazy!!!
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Posted By: Puddleduck
Date Posted: 14 October 2011 at 11:57am
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On the topic of risks in VB vs CS, I felt that our antenatal class did cover the risks associated with VB (tears/assisted deliveries) but they talked about them as risks associated accepting pain relief during labour. Whereas assisted deliveries and CSs were discussed only in terms of risks and side effects. Not very helpful really, made me feel pretty stink when I opted for the mother of all medical interventions and had a c-section.
I'm taking a leaf out of your book though Girlsrock, I'm going to stop feeling bad about choosing a section and instead feel proud that I made an informed choice about what I believed was safest for me and my baby even if it wasn't the birth I had hoped for or imagined. ------------- http://alterna-tickers.com"> 
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Posted By: Aroha11
Date Posted: 14 October 2011 at 1:00pm
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Good on you Puddleduck - the same for me
I don't think birth was discussed enough in our antenatal class in terms of risks for both and side effects but also that it isn't just the birth where you can have unrealistic views like, what you are actually entitled to in respect to care etc. But I guess everyone is different as a lot of people I have spoken to would rather not know. Oh well. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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