Need help with BFing!!
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Topic: Need help with BFing!!
Posted By: Babykatnz
Subject: Need help with BFing!!
Date Posted: 02 April 2011 at 8:32am
Me again... although this may end up being my last call for help if D has anything to do with it 
How do I get baby interested in latching on (with aid of nipple shield, tongue tie still not sorted yet) when I am still required to top-up with a bottle?? It has gotten to the stage where he fights me constantly while latched on, and I end up having to express what i can and give it to him in a bottle for fear of him not gaining enough weight (we are still playing catch up, at 1 month old he has only just reached birth weight again as of yesterday) since we have to see paed again on Wednesday after being admitted to hospital for low weight gains (hence the constant top-ups!)... so until his weight is at an acceptable range for age, I cant try going cold turkey on bottles right now I've tried using a lactaid (tube that goes from supplement down to nipple where the suck through tube and nipple at same time) but catch 22 is that it doesnt work with a shield... and referral to get tongue tie sorted is still not coming back with an appt time, so i have no 'goal' to work towards in regards to how long til we can start trying to get him latched on 'normally' Supply isnt an issue (I dont think?) as i am leaking about an hour after feeding, and am full by the time his next feed is due (3-4 hours), unfortunately it doesnt matter what time of day, or how long after feeds I express, I'm not responding too well to pumps (have an avent manual, and am using a hospital grade Medela pump, both get the same results in the same amount of time), I always get off app 30-40ml each time, whether I'm feeling full or not. I'd have to pump hourly for 24 hours to get enough milk to be able to feed him on EBM alone! JIC it IS a supply issue, I am taking blessed thistle, domperidone and milk flow capsules, and have been chowing down on lactation cookies (been eating 3 or 4 every day, prob not so good for my hips but BF was more important!) help??? ------------- Brandon - 05/12/2003  
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Replies:
Posted By: Shezamumof3
Date Posted: 02 April 2011 at 9:24am
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*hugs* Lisa! They really need to get their A's into G with that tongue tie issue!
Im not really sure what can help but I found this link from the LLL about breastfeeding and tongueties, it might help you. http://www.llli.org/llleaderweb/lv/lvaprmay02p27.html - Link ------------- |
Posted By: Nothing
Date Posted: 02 April 2011 at 10:01am
I have no help except this http://mamaandbabylove.blogspot.com/2010/12/make-your-boobs-happy-place.html - link to a blog that I read. Might be some helpful info on how to get him to latch and stay latched. Good luck and keep perservering, you are doing so well to get so far. I would be calling the paed for the referall about the tongue tie, keep on at them until you get seen- its the only way  ------------- 
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Posted By: Plushie
Date Posted: 02 April 2011 at 10:19am
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Don't give up!!
DS flat out refused breastfeeding for 3 days then only licked - seriously, licked - at the drippy bits of the end for the next 3. He had a tounge tie too that wasnt snipped until 5 weeks. It was taking me 10min PLUS per nipple per feed to latch him and i was crying over him in the night because he'd be hungry and he just wouldnt open his freaking mouth. He was making a zoolander face at the nipple and i don't think i ever saw a big open mouth like you're supposed to. Oh and once latched he'd pull back squirm and slide off so he was just sucking on the tip again, repeat said battle with latch, it was mental tourture! I have no advice at all except keep trying and as he gets bigger it'll be easier. The tounge snip definatly helped us - though word of warning, it means he kind of has to learn to latch and suck all over again with this weird tounge that moves differently so it might be harder for a short time. And he sucked harder too which gave you the new tender breastfeeding nipple thing again. You're doing really really well to be going for a month already, don't give up, it will get better. Oh, and whats your LC like? I spent one day after being discharged in the hospital so i could ding her for every feed (though that might not be possible for you with a little one to care for as well!) and then i called her to the house for a feed a day for the next week after that. She probably hates me - but i needed it. ETA: just realised i didnt answer the question just rambled about myself, sorry was going for a empathetic/solidarity angle! You're probably already trying these things but hand express a little so you start the milk dripping and it falls onto his mouth and hopefully start him opening his mouth and looking for more. Then |
Posted By: Plushie
Date Posted: 02 April 2011 at 10:36am
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dammit sorry stupid computer,
i also tried to drop a spoon or so into his mouth to remind him what was to come and also take the edge of the hunger so he was more calm as he latched. and i fed him in the dark quiet room for nearly 3 weeks in case it was noise that was causing him to fuss at the breast. do you have a fast letdown? i do and max would go mad twisting his head and thrashing limbs to avoid the firehose - helped to de latch and spray off the first bit. try lll meeting too mine had great advice. soorry for mad posts baby twisting my nipple and flailing atm! |
Posted By: MamaT
Date Posted: 02 April 2011 at 11:18am
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In the first few days I was having to supplement DS with ebm too and I found I would often have to offer to bottle for a wee bit first before I could get him latched, if he was too hungry he would refuse my breast, it was too much work for him. Then I would end up alternating between breast and bottle for a lot of the feed.
Perhaps try pming weegee or fattarts??? Grrrr at the hospital for not arranging an appointment time already, its ridiculous. I just wanted to say, good on you for perservering with breastfeeding, you are doing an amazing job and certainly haven't had an easy ride. -------------  
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Posted By: T_Rex
Date Posted: 02 April 2011 at 11:24am
Not really much advice on the latching, but I am hopeless at expressing cos I don't have a decent letdown. But I did find if I had DD on one boob (regardless of if she had a decent latch), I could get way more milk out of the other boob. It's not easy though, and would often take DH to pass me the baby once I had the pump attached  and then hang around to take her or the pump away afterwards.------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: caliandjack
Date Posted: 02 April 2011 at 12:06pm
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I had similar problems with DD, tongue tie low birth weight.
I never use nipple shields, no body told me I needed to. I bf for a week with until the tongue tie was picked up (hurt like a mf). Cause she was small she was also a slow feeder This is what we did - I would feed her on my breast for 30 minutes then give her EBM and formula if she needed it. After a couple of days of the bottle she refused the breast, and I was about to give up. Instead I gave her EBM first then put her back on the breast and she went fine, cause the bottle was easier for her and I felt it gave her 'practice' with latching. I only used Medela bottles with nuk teats and have the Medela mini electric pump. Manual pumps took ages. We did this for the first 3-4 weeks, then I moved to bf during the day and bottles at night, and allowed her to feed as much during the day as she wanted. At 2 months she got the hang of latching and we've been exclusively bf ever since. I spent a day at the Family Centre with a LC, spending the whole day really helped. ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">   [/url] Angel June 2012 |
Posted By: fattartsrock
Date Posted: 02 April 2011 at 12:38pm
This is AWESOME stuff! Well done, you! YOu should be so proud of yourself. 
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caliandjack wrote:Posted By: fattartsrock
Date Posted: 02 April 2011 at 12:49pm
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Ok, latching properly with a tounge tie is really hard. I can't believe they have been mucking you round with it!!!! Must be so frustrating for you to say the least.
Dosne't sound like your supply is an issue and I'd stop the suppliments and carry on with the pump only for a couple of reasons. 1st reason is it stimulates your body to make more milk, regardless of how little comes out. How much you get out is NOT a good indicator of how much milk you have! and @nd, the stimulating thing is good because oyu won't lose too miuch of your supply when you top baby up. Some good things to do is to try and latch baby on when they aren't screaming/hungry or stressed. When they first wake up is good, theya re all sleepy and pretty easy to manipulte! Another idea is to have lots of shirts off cubbles time, lots of lovely chest to face bare skin time, snuggling ina warm bath or shower is good, or just snuggled up in bed together for the morning so baby can get some "good feelings associations" with being in that area. Make usre your bottle teat is a slow flow teat, because hte fater the flow, the less likey they are to want the much slower ejections reflex of breast milk. Also try and wave some under babys nose before latch on, get their taste buds running. |
Posted By: CJsays
Date Posted: 02 April 2011 at 7:48pm
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hey i'm not sure about tonguie tie, but i have a prem baby who went thru a very bad fussy stage 3 weeks ago and i thought the bfing was going to be over. we do EBM by bottle and BFing, 2 bottles a day now and the rest BF.
the thing i found that worked when she was fussy is cradle hold, and me standing and rocking her gently from side to side. seemed to help settle her down and keep her latched on. is only a small thing but worth trying, hope it helps, i totally understand your frustration and really hope you can work it out. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: caliandjack
Date Posted: 03 April 2011 at 8:02am
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I used the football hold in the beginning when she was little. That seemed to give a better latch. I have big boobs which may have been a factor.
When is he getting his tongue tie sorted? Not sure how severe it is, I took DD to a GP in Milford that specialises in them and it was a 5 min procedure done straight away it cost $50 better than having to wait IMO. Getting them done thru the hospitals seems to take forever. ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> [/url] Angel June 2012 |
Posted By: Babykatnz
Date Posted: 03 April 2011 at 9:04am
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Its not one that a GP can take care of (they do grade 1 and 2, his is grade 4) so I'm stuck waiting for the referral (cant go private as he cant get added to our policy until 3 months old) the LC specialist that diagnosed it will be doing a referral tomorrow if the service I'm registered with havent got their A into G yet!
Have followed some of the suggestions like starting the feed before he gets grumpy, and if im too late then doing bottle first then top-up from me and we seem to be getting back on track... crisis averted for now! thanks for the advice!! ------------- Brandon - 05/12/2003
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Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 03 April 2011 at 9:18am
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thats great news. i felt bad after seeing you the other day that i had no good advice to offer you, in fact i felt i was less than supportive and felt very stink! So i am glad that some of the replies have helped. ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker"> 
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Posted By: T_Rex
Date Posted: 03 April 2011 at 10:09am
Ohh yay! I'm glad to hear things have improved a bit. You are doing so well chick. Hang in there  ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Emmi_
Date Posted: 03 April 2011 at 11:10am
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Glad to hear your getting it sorted BK, I just wanted to add tho, that the lactaid does work with a nipple shield, when we had to use it with DD thats what we did - poked the tube through the nipple shield, the shield still stuck to the boob and the milk would still flow through the tube, if that makes sense? Let me know if you want me to try and explain it better for you (or ask the LC, they should know, our LC was the one that set mine up) ------------- 
+1 May 09 Angel 
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Posted By: Babykatnz
Date Posted: 03 April 2011 at 12:23pm
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We tried it in hosp and it wouldnt work, there was a miniscule gap between shield and breast where tube was, and it was enough to kill the suction... the LC from neonates came up to try and set it up and she couldnt get it to work either... one of the main reasons we want to get the TT sorted asap, easier to use lactaid if I can feed him without shields!
lol Deb, no probs, you didnt know the whole story, all I said was that he wouldnt feed! Plus it wasnt really a good place to be talking about feeding probs, I'm sure the other lady didnt need to hear all about how my baby cant latch onto my boobs!!  ------------- Brandon - 05/12/2003
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Posted By: Emmi_
Date Posted: 03 April 2011 at 12:25pm
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Oh ok, that makes sense then BK, stinko!! -------------
+1 May 09 Angel
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Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 03 April 2011 at 12:25pm
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LOL good point! ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker">
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Posted By: MamaT
Date Posted: 03 April 2011 at 5:49pm
I'm so glad to hear you and D are making progress, well done you   -------------
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Posted By: sweetknights
Date Posted: 04 April 2011 at 2:17pm
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BabyKatNZ ---- Your problem is very similar to mine we spent time in hospital due to my dd losing 2lbs and I almost lost my milk supply by the time we found out And getting her to latch was a nightmare although I did start expressing at hospital and to start with I was only able to get out 40-50ml at a time and had to top her up with formula..She had a pretty hard TT discovered and had it snipped at 5 weeks also but unfortunately it didn't improve the breast feeding..I have has several appointments with the LC and my dd problem isn't the latch as she can latch on really well its the sucking more as she also has a short tongue so the lc thinks with time she may pick up breast feeding..She is 9 weeks old now and although I am still expressing she has started doing a little better at the breast plus I am able to express of 180ml a time now although the expressing is a PITA and I would much prefer if I could BF full time as its just easier (for going out ect..) but hopefully she will get it within the next month and if not i will carry on expressing so she is getting the breast milk... But just wanted to say I know from experience how hard it is and how tiring and long winded feeding can be but it does get easier plus hopefully once your little one has its tt snipped you will get right back on track xxx ------------- http://lilypie.com">  
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