More sleep help - please!
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Category: Have A Baby?
Forum Name: First baby? Second or more?
Forum Description: Want help? Need support? Want tips? Men and women share advice and tips in this supportive community
URL: https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37982
Printed Date: 25 August 2025 at 12:18am
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Topic: More sleep help - please!
Posted By: Hopes
Subject: More sleep help - please!
Date Posted: 12 February 2011 at 9:12am
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Ok – I’d love your opinions on this one. Despite being the most adorable snuggle-monster, even I have to admit that Jacob has his failings – mainly when it comes to sleep. Most nights, he’s up every hour. Good nights, he’s up every second hour. On superb nights (which are sadly few and far between), we get a three or four hour stretch. Apart from the odd moment, I’m actually pretty unstressed about it – but I know that he should be able to do better, and I must admit as much as I’m coping fine, I would LOVE a bit more sleep!!!
Firstly, to rule out the obvious. I don’t rock him to sleep (he’s never liked that at all), I don’t feed him to sleep, he should be at a comfortable temperature, he has a lovie and his dummy. When I put him down, he’s pretty good at settling himself; he has times when he’s better than others, but lately as a rule getting him to sleep isn’t a huge fight. I’m pretty sure he doesn’t have reflux or colic or any other uncomfortablenesses (he’s been hellishly constipated the last couple of weeks, but his sleeping hasn’t changed dramatically over that time, it’s been going on a lot longer than that and we’ve fixed that no-poo situation now). I don’t feed him every time he wakes up (even though it’s the easiest way to get him to go back down) – I let myself feed him every four hours at night (I’m stretching it out to five at the moment). Probably about 75% of the time, it’s quite easy to get him to go back to sleep in the night – I just put his dummy in and pat his back for a moment and leave him – he’ll fuss for a while and go back to sleep. The other 25% of the time he’ll fight harder, but he’s usually back down within the hour. Having ruled out everything else I can think of, I think perhaps he’s waking because he’s lost his dummy. I’m a little unsure, because I know he can do longer at times (even when it’s fallen out early in the sleep). We got a four hour (!) stretch the night before last. But that’s all I can think of. However, I’m very reluctant to take it off him because: a) It’s incredibly helpful at getting him to settle b) It’s incredibly helpful at stretching out his day sleeps (before we used it we’d never get more than 45 minutes, ever). c) We’re going to Australia in two weeks for a fortnight, and I want him to have it on the plane and when he’s in a strange place over there. What would you do?? Anyone been here? Any advice? I have to admit that while I’m not finding the situation too hard in myself, I feel very embarrassed admitting that my six-month-old baby is still up every hour. If I didn’t want the advice, I’d never confess to it on OhBaby – I feel like I must be doing a pretty dreadful job of something when all the other Mums with similar-age babies I know complain if Bubs wakes up twice in the night. So please go easy on me – I’m doing everything I can possibly think of. (The Plunket nurse made me furious when she said (to Jacob) “you’ve just got your Mummy round your little finger”. Excuse me? How exactly? I love him to bits, but I’m happy to be as firm on him as necessary (i.e. not feeding him even when it’s the easy option). I’m doing everything I can that I think is right, you silly lady, it’s not as if I know what will help but won’t do it because I’m soft or something. Grr.) -------------   
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Replies:
Posted By: maya22
Date Posted: 12 February 2011 at 10:21am
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One of the best bits of advice from Elizabeth Pantley's book (no cry sleep solution) was not to let a baby go to sleep while sucking, as then they will need to suck every time they wake up.
She suggests to wean the baby off sucking slowly and gently - so as baby falls asleep remove the dummy. If there is a protest then you can put it back in, but over time you are trying to take the dummy out earlier and earlier, so that baby can settle with it, but fall asleep without it. Or you persevere until baby can find the dummy and pop it back in by themselves. Have a look around this website too, lots of helpful advice http://www.thesleepstore.co.nz/Sleep+Information/Babies+4+to+12+months/Sleep+Associations+and+Self-Settling.html ------------- DS1 July 2007 DS2 Nov 2010 http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: Danda08
Date Posted: 12 February 2011 at 10:29am
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I was going to suggest The Sleepstore website too. They have loads of info and discussion forums.
My suggestion would be to start using he Verbal Reassurance technique. BUT if you're not too bothered with the current situation you may not be too keen on it cos it does involve letting them cry and is only appropriate if you're sure he's not hungry. We used it as a last resort with huge success (worked very quickly & effectively with my girls). ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 12 February 2011 at 10:46am
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So you're suggesting ditching the dummy, Danda? Because at the moment he's settling fine with it, so we've got our settling stuff sorted - it's the waking up again that gets us! -------------
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Posted By: High9
Date Posted: 12 February 2011 at 11:22am
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Don't feel embarrassed! My DD at 11.5 months still does hourly on bad nights and is still pretty much 2-3 hourly! The most she has ever done is 6-7 hours... But that's only happened maybe 4 or 5 times since birth (lol).
My doctor tried (well did) gave us a book by Gina Ford - Contented Little Baby... It wasn't for us so can't comment on if it worked or not because I didn't try but maybe someone else has?? ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: maya22
Date Posted: 12 February 2011 at 12:09pm
but the two are the same thing! all babies wake during the night, it is just that some don't need mum in the night to help get back to sleep. Or in your case a dummy. ------------- DS1 July 2007 DS2 Nov 2010 http://lilypie.com">
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Hopes wrote:Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 12 February 2011 at 1:30pm
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Yea, I know that, Maya. So I assumed that Danda’s suggesting ditching the dummy, because when he’s using that to settle himself after waking (rightly or wrongly), he doesn’t need anything else like verbal reassurance techniques to settle him. But I thought it was worth checking, because she didn’t actually say anything about getting rid of the dummy...
I am seriously considering ditching the dummy. I'm still not 100% sure it's the problem, though. I mean, I know some experts advise against - and I also know other experts are sold on them (in fact, we started using it on recommendation from the family centre. Also, out of all the ladies in our coffee group who use dummies, Jacob's the only one having this problem. I don't want to mess with what is otherwise a brilliant tool for getting the lad to sleep if it's not going to help... Edited to make myself clearer -------------
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Posted By: millymollymandy
Date Posted: 12 February 2011 at 1:36pm
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I'd ditch the dummy. I found that if DD didn't have the same thing to settle her in the night as when she first went to sleep she'd wake every hour.
Can you replace it with a cuddly or a teddy or something that's bigger and easier to find? Do the trick as per Maya's post where you wean them slowly and introduce something else at the same time. With the flight to OZ maybe try one of those fruit mesh things to suck on? Don't feel about at waking at 6 months - my petal was still waking heaps at that age. She's a champion sleeper these days. I think you are remarkably zen about the whole thing. |
Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 12 February 2011 at 1:44pm
He does have his cuddly, millymollymandy - and he has been known to go to sleep sucking its nose instead of his dummy  That's definitely easier for him to find too.
If I was going to wean him off the dummy before Oz, I should get onto it, I wouldn't want to have an international trip halfway through a transition like that, there was a lot of crying when I weaned him off his wrap!! ETA that I could also jut feed him going up and coming down on the plane. His dummy would be handy, though, it's great at helping him settle when he's grumpy and confused, which I'm sure he will be! -------------
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Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 12 February 2011 at 1:54pm
And if we do decide to ditch it now, that does sound like very helpful advice, thanks  -------------
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Posted By: crafty1
Date Posted: 12 February 2011 at 2:20pm
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It definitely sounds like the dummy is the problem. Do you think you can hang in there till you get back from Aus?
It will be harder for a few weeks but once the dummy is gone his sleep will be soooooooo much better. And it is easier to wean the dummy at this age than over 8-9 months when they get more aware. DS1 used a dummy but we never used it for all sleeps and so we could use it when we had to ie sickness, planes, staying at nana's house, but he never needed it. Not sure if it would work to wean it now and then still use it in Aus. It may be doubling your work! There are a few ways to wean off the dummy - here's a good thread... http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/showthread.php?t=3908 ------------- http://lilypie.com">  
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Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 12 February 2011 at 2:25pm
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Oooh, great link, thanks crafty1!!
I do wonder about hanging it out till we get back. But then again, if the dummy is the problem perhaps it's best just to get rid of it now. I'll have to think. -------------
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Posted By: bebebaby
Date Posted: 12 February 2011 at 7:42pm
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Hopes do you have a dummy clip? So you can clip it to his pj's or sleeping bag? ------------- http://alterna-tickers.com"> 
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Posted By: fire_engine
Date Posted: 12 February 2011 at 7:57pm
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We had a dummy addict and ended up putting 3 dummies in his bed. It takes a while for them to learn how to put them in though and he's probably a bit young for that.
Does he need a dummy for every sleep? And you poor thing - I don't know how you're sane with waking every hour at night  ------------- Mum to two wee boys |
Posted By: Raspberryjam
Date Posted: 12 February 2011 at 9:06pm
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Hopes is he on solids yet? might be worth a crack ------------- http://lilypie.com] 
http://lilypie.com] 
http://lilypie.com] 
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Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 12 February 2011 at 9:06pm
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Unfortunately, he's just a bit lacking in the coordination department for now. Even when the dummy is in his hand, he struggles with the teat / mouth lineup.
We end up with this more often than not: 
He doesn't need a dummy for every sleep, Flissy, but I have to admit he has it for most. ETA We cross-posted Raspberryjam. He's just starting (we had a wee break in the solids introduction while we waited for the 18-day poo drought to break! Now that's broken, we're back into them.) -------------
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Posted By: Bobchannz
Date Posted: 12 February 2011 at 9:37pm
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Hey Hopes,
I was having trouble with DD2 doing only 45min sleeps during the day, and getting up once or twice at night (sorry not really a problem in comparison but I don't like getting up at night)! To stretch out the daytime sleeps I used the Sleepstore advice on catnapping. Basically I started swaddling again. This worked instantly. We have had a couple of rough times lately with the heat, but I use the verbal reassurance technique 'Goodnight DD2' every five mins until she gets it. Now tends to have a 2.5 hr sleep in the morning and 1.5 in the afternoon. The Sleepstore does have techniques involving both the dummy and no dummy. Can you wean off the dummy during the day and then move to night feeds? My DD2 was sleeping from 7-7 with a big feed at 3 (and sometimes a 1am/5am feed). My personal rule is that if she gets up after six it is daytime but any earlier then back to bed. After reading the sleepstore stuff I now give her a dreamfeed at 10.30 and hope that she will sleep until 7. For the first three nights she got up around 4. The first night VR worked after 30mins, the next two nights I gave up after an hour and fed her (she is always very thirsty). Last night she slept through and we will see what happens tonight!! Can you take turns with your partner with the sleep wake ups? I've used ear plugs a couple of times and my husband was on night duty. Just a note, my elder daughter never adjusted to the time difference on any of my overseas trips. We were resigned to 4am wake ups!! ------------- www.makedomum.blogspot.co.nz |
Posted By: Danda08
Date Posted: 12 February 2011 at 9:57pm
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Yep I was suggesting VR for getting rid of the dummy. My girls didn't have dummies but we used VR for stopping swaddling (as well as settling for one of my girls).
I could get them to go to sleep unswaddled but they would wake in the middle of the night and not settle again - well unless you count 3 hours later as settling again! Lil_Nic - I've been doing the Gina Ford CLB routines with my girls and it's worked fantastically for us, but it's a daily routine rather than a solution for night waking. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 14 February 2011 at 8:20am
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I think we've pretty much outgrown the wrap, Bobchannz. He was getting out of it a lot anyway, and then when he started rolling he'd end up faceplanted on the mattress unable to turn because his arms were trapped by his sides. So I don't think I'll go back to it - and his sleep staying pretty much the same when we lost it anyway (after the initial adjustment period).
He has a feed at 10 - usually not a dreamfeed, because he'll wake for it, but he shouldn't be hungry (and I really don't think he is). In fact, I think he could easily last overnight as far as food goes, but for now I'm happy to give him a middle-of-the-night feed if he asks for it. It's the unnecessary wake-ups inbetween that I'm keener to drop. AND, to add to the mix, I paid attention when I went to him last night - and a number of times when he woke up, he HAD his dummy. Weird... I still think the dummy is part of the problem... but am wondering why else would he wake up if he hasn't lost it! -------------
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Posted By: Danda08
Date Posted: 14 February 2011 at 9:02am
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5 months is when their sleeping patterns change and they will start to wake several times in the night.
http://www.thesleepstore.co.nz/Sleep+Information/Babies+4+to+12+months/Why+is+your+baby+waking.html - Here is a link to some info about it from The Sleepstore. Verbal Reassurance can help with teaching him to self settle during the night. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: jaycee
Date Posted: 14 February 2011 at 9:32am
I got rid of Amy's dummy when she was about 4 months old as I was over putting it back in all the time  Ours was mostly up until midnight, BUT what I did notice in the week after it was gone, she seemed to sleep much more deeply. It was like with the dummy, she was still in a light sleep as she was sucking on it. Once it was gone, she sank into the deep sleep much more easily.
Good luck, home it goes smoothly for you -------------   
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Posted By: AliceM
Date Posted: 14 February 2011 at 12:06pm
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Hopes, we're thinking of ditching the dummy here too. My midwife suggested when the time came to cut a little bit off the teat each week until it's basically all gone instead of just taking the whole dummy away in one go.
Might wait till we're back home before I try it though! |
Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 14 February 2011 at 8:33pm
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Well, day 1 of no dummy, and we have a very upset little boy. But that is to be expected, poor lovie. -------------
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Posted By: T_Rex
Date Posted: 14 February 2011 at 8:44pm
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You poor thing!! I'd be tempted to hang in there until I'd been to Aussie rather than confuse the heck out of him by stealing his dummy and then taking him to a strange place.
Could his teeth be bothering him (you could try dosing him with pamol one night and see if it makes a difference?), or could he be too hot/cold? Is there a bothersome noise/light near his room? Anything that could be waking him up? On the dummy front, DD could never master putting in the dummy you show in the photo either, so I bought one more like the "cosmic comforter" in this http://www.tommeetippee.co.nz/products.asp?pk=5&seq=1 - link and she mastered putting that in right very quickly. So that might be worth a try? Ultimately I think ditching the dummy is the way to go - it sounds like it's being more harm than good at the moment (and you can always give it back if it doesn't help!). Good luck!! ------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: T_Rex
Date Posted: 14 February 2011 at 8:46pm
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Haha, that's what happens when I stop mid post for a half hour phone convo!
He'll get better very quickly, hun! We tried ditching DD's twice. The first time was just before we finally got a diagnosis, and after about 10 terrible terrible days/nights I gave it back to her because things weren't getting any better. The second time (post surgery) she was sleeping way better within 3 days, just like the books said. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 14 February 2011 at 9:15pm
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Yea... I was very torn, T_Rex... in the end I decided that everything I read said that before six months is easier than after (and he'll be seven when we get back), and that we've got time for him to get used to the new normal before I go. But of course since he's struggling now, I'm regretting that decision a little. He's just the same as he was the first night without his wrap, though, and he got used to sleeping without that in about three nights. But poor little love, I wish I could make it feel better! -------------
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Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 15 February 2011 at 6:28am
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Wow... well that made a big difference. I didn't expect that much difference on night one - a feed just before 11, another at 3, and up at 6. No wake-ups in between at all. In theory, if I just move the first feed forward a bit, and the last one back a bit, that would be excellent!
On the other hand, the poor poppet! I hope he learns how to settle himself better - fast! I'm sure he will, but that's the thing I'm going to miss most about the dummy - there's always times when they WILL find it hard to settle, and with the dummy he just pay there sucking furiously and giving the odd squeak. Now I'm sure that those hard-to-settle times will involve full-on bawling 
But I think this does suggest that it was the dummy waking him up... -------------
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Posted By: T_Rex
Date Posted: 15 February 2011 at 8:11pm
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Awesome to see such a quick improvement. But yes, there are more tears on a bad day without a dummy to plug the cry-hole with
That is the only downer though, the rest of the time it's great. I will rock DD to sleep when she's having a tough time settling and she's now sleeping 10 hours regularly. It seems like she knows how to self-settle and while she needs the extra cuddles when she's wound up, once she stirs in the night, she has settled down, and she knows where she is and what to do and doesn't need me again. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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