autism and vaccination link
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Topic: autism and vaccination link
Posted By: Raspberryjam
Subject: autism and vaccination link
Date Posted: 07 January 2011 at 9:59am
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http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/8607663/autism-and-vaccination-link-elaborate-fraud/
thought this might interest some ------------- http://lilypie.com] 
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Replies:
Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 07 January 2011 at 10:10am
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Someone else already put it in the news bit.
Is important to remember it was just one study ------------- 
 
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Posted By: Lucky apple
Date Posted: 07 January 2011 at 10:32am
...with only 12 participants..... ETA: the word "only" |
two_boys wrote:Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 07 January 2011 at 10:59am
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Yep well that's what I mean, one study that only said there was a possiblity of a link, it didn't claim there was a link, that only looked at one side effect of one vaccine doesn't really change much does it. It's hardly the huge big deal the media are making of it. -------------
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Posted By: kellie
Date Posted: 07 January 2011 at 11:31am
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I agree with two_boys. I don't know if there is a link or not but one study is hardly going to sway me one way or another ------------- 
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Posted By: karenb_chch
Date Posted: 07 January 2011 at 12:41pm
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The point is that this is the study that everyone quoted to link the MMR vaccine and autism. It resulted in vaccination rates in the UK dropping from 95% to 80% in less than 10 years. And it was a fraud.
There are NO reputable studies, that I am aware of that link autism with any vaccine. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: freckle
Date Posted: 07 January 2011 at 12:50pm
Exactly! and there is a lot of evidence negating any relationship between the two, i.e. early brain differences (prior to the MMR) in children diagnosed as ASD. The fact the many ASD children begin to show more overt characteristics of the disorder (or begin to regress) around the age MMR is administered, appears a mere correlation and in no way indicates a causal relationship, as this is the typical presentation of ASD no matter whether vaxxed or not... ------------- mum to 3 lovely girls :D |
Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 07 January 2011 at 1:16pm
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Well these people were awarded 1.5 mil for a vaccines causing their child autism like symptoms, and other cases of autism have been paid out in the past
http://www.cbsnews.com/8300-31727_162-10391695.html?keyword=hannah+poling Wakefield didn't tell people not to vaccinate he said concerned parents should use the single vaccines instead which at the time were still currently and readily available, it was the Uk government that in the same year made the single vaccines unavailable forcing worried parents to pick whether to give the MMR which was relatively new at the time or not vaccinate, so the UK government was responsible for the decline in vaccination if fingers are going to pointed at anyone. (and I'm not saying what wakefield did was right, I'm just saying that he never said don't vaccinate the Uk government forced parents hands) Also there is this that shows that measles outbreaks actually dropped as the vaccination rate drop http://www.vaccinationnews.com/measles-united-kingdom-wakefield-factor I don't know either way if any vaccine actually causes autism but my intial point stands this is only one doctor, one study, one vaccine and yet the media and pro vaxxers seem to think that all people that have chosen not to vax should run and get them done just because of this, which is silly, decisions not to vax aren't based on one research paper, the same as a link or the possibility of one also wouldn't be based on just one paper. -------------
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Posted By: linda
Date Posted: 07 January 2011 at 3:34pm
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two boys, I think you'd be surprised at the number of people that would take that one report as being the 'truth' and basing there decisions on it. The fact that it is a fraud will hopefully make other people research that much harder to work out the so called best decision for them ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
Alex 6 and Harry 8 |
Posted By: Shezamumof3
Date Posted: 07 January 2011 at 4:18pm
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I personally dont think vaccinating has anything to do with autism, I think if a child is going to develop it, they will regardless, its in the childs makeup, and nothing to do with vaccinating.
And if someone is anti vaxxing, then I also dont think they should have to run out and vaccinated cos of this one study. If someone chooses not to vaccinate, Im asuming they have done a lot of reasearch on the matter. |
Posted By: nicandtyler
Date Posted: 07 January 2011 at 5:03pm
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as a non-vaxxer my reasons for not vaxxing weren't due to the threat of autism. Yes that thought crossed my mind, but I have done so much research on the topic that that is not something that worries me, there is plenty that I researched that put me off vaxxing (which I won't discuss on here lol) but the autism and vaxxing debate is one thing that bothers me a bit cos its what some people around me seem to think is the only reason I have chosen not to, when it's not at all. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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 April '11
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Posted By: rorylex
Date Posted: 07 January 2011 at 9:32pm
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well my son has autism and he didnt start showing signs til well after his vax. so i dont think they are linked. ------------- Mummy to 4 boys Samuel - 18.6.05 Rory - 15.7.06 Mason - 13.06.08 Emmett - 24.01.10 Baby #5 - cooking |
Posted By: myonlineself
Date Posted: 08 January 2011 at 11:55am
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the thing is - that study did so much damage and really started off the whole anti-vaccination thing and caused a huge drop in vaccination numbers for what was total and utter rubbish - and now evidence suggests in fact a deliberate fraud.... the damage that study caused will never be completed 'fixed. Even if people now don't use that study as a reason not to vaccinate, it did cause many many people not to at one time, and is still directly or indirectly a cause of people choosing not to vaccinate. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: Raspberryjam
Date Posted: 08 January 2011 at 12:40pm
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Well I dont know one way or the other, but I am happy with my decision to vaccinate as I believe the chances of adverse affects are no where near the chances of infection without vaccines.
I do think the scare tactics the media and dishoesty surrounding this issue has caused much damage too ------------- http://lilypie.com]
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Posted By: Emmecat
Date Posted: 08 January 2011 at 7:30pm
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I would be suprised at this Linda...and disappointed if people chose not to vax simply due to ONE paper/item of research. I know many parents who don't vax their kids (and many who do) and of those who don't, none of them have based their decision on this paper. -------------   http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: kebakat
Date Posted: 08 January 2011 at 7:56pm
I agree with that. There are people out there who hear things like that and thing OMG I'm not doing that. Its the same as when some people hear blah blah blah may cause cancer or something like that and they immediately avoid anything related to it like the plague without really researching it. |
Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 08 January 2011 at 8:24pm
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I know someone who is dead set against vaxing because it 'causes' autism. This study caused a real scare when it came out - I can understand that, because if something like it came out now, I'd re-think vaxing (as it was, when I made my decision, more studies had been done since this one which suggested that, surprise surprise, there wasn't a link).
Not that I agree with her thinking; a little more research would have done a world of good. But she's living proof that it persuaded some people. -------------   
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Posted By: Raspberryjam
Date Posted: 08 January 2011 at 8:24pm
sadly there are! after many years working in pharmacy you would be surprised at what people buy or dont buy due to myths and ledgends or keeping up with the jones's ------------- http://lilypie.com]
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Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 08 January 2011 at 8:29pm
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I know, it always amazes me what people buy into without checking it out.
In saying that, I'm guilty myself. I religeously drank grapefruit juice (which I hate) every month to increase EWCM, even though I couldn't find a study anywhere which suggested it does actually increase it. Although I guess at least I was aware it was most likely an old wives tale... but I figured it couldn't hurt  -------------
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Posted By: Buttersmum
Date Posted: 08 January 2011 at 8:40pm
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I blame the media for alot of these reactions to things as well. Unfortunately they pick up on these small studies some that aren't even concluded and exagerate the side effects or focus on one possible side effect or outcome. Its scaremongering and unfortunately alot of people believe what they hear/read. I've seen it so many times regarding cancer studies and HRT studies. Makes me so cross ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
my little blobby April 09 "gone but will never be forgotten xx"
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Posted By: Emmecat
Date Posted: 08 January 2011 at 9:35pm
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Really? ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Who cares what the Joneses are doing?! Posted By: Raspberryjam
Date Posted: 08 January 2011 at 10:53pm
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madness aye, our children are our 'prized possessions' , and which ever way you tend to go on the vax debate, its a shame that not all people are making the choice based on education
Maybe ignorance is bliss - who knows ------------- http://lilypie.com]
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 09 January 2011 at 6:06am
Absolutely Raspberryjam and I would wager that far more parents vax without adequate knowledge than those who don't vax without adequate knowledge (considering some of us have to deal with grillings by the medical establishment) How many now think all vaccines have been deemed safe because of one debunked study on one aspect of one vaccine? and won't bother to even read the package inserts before getting their kids jabbed? -------------
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Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 09 January 2011 at 6:51am
I think the guy hasn't done himself any favours in the long run. A similar type of people to the ones who jumped on the 'vaxing is evil' bandwagon after hearing rumors of the study will be the ones who hear of this guy falsifying data and consequently assume (hopefully incorrectly!!) that any other evidence to the contrary is just as untrustworthy. I think you'd be right that less people research the decision to vax. However, I don't see that as irresponsible parenting, even though I did my research myself. It's rather choosing to put your trust in a body of health professionals, and assume they have the knowledge and skills to know what is most healthy for your child. But if you choose not to vax, you're basically choosing to say you have a different opinion to most Drs - and that's a decision I would never be comfortable about without having done a lot of research! I don't think it's bad parenting to trust the people who are meant to be expert in this field - although I do think it's good we live in a free country where people are quite entitled to do their own research and come to a different conclusion if they want. Edited to make sense -------------
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 09 January 2011 at 7:23am
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Problem is that most GP's have little knowledge on vaccines and the vaccine schedule is not individually tailored to each child and more importantly the schedule as a whole has never been tested for safety. Also if you have a look around it's not hard to find doctors against vaccinations, against so much vaccination or doctors questioning the safety and efficiency of vaccination.
I would trust the professionals and the government a lot more if they even went so far as to warn you about the risks, the ones stated in the package inserts by the manufacturers that the government likes to gloss over in it's posters and pamplets but they don't, you only know if you go looking for it yourself. This is by someone else but it's good. What Every Parent Needs to Know About Vaccines According to the CDC Do you read the ingredient labels on food before buying it? Read the instructions before assembling furniture? Read the fine print before signing on the dotted line to buy a car? We take time to ensure we are making an informed decision on a variety of topics. Why not do the same for your child’s vaccination schedule? Here is what all parents should know about vaccines before deciding whether or not to keep their children vaccine free. The links below take you to pro-vaccine, authoritative sources: http://guggiedaly.blogspot.com/2010/11/what-every-parents-needs-to-read-on.html?spref=fb - link to site this came from -------------
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Posted By: Emmecat
Date Posted: 09 January 2011 at 9:12am
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AGREE Personally, I'm not ness against vaxxing but I AM against the way it's scheduled in NZ and also that as parents we can't chose what we give our children (as in you can't buy most vax's seperately as you can do overseas). As a result, at this stage I would rather not vax my children at all than over vax them with things that are unnessecary (IMO). I also have to say that I DO question anything the Dr advises me to do/not do...not because I don't trust him...but because I don't trust him-or anyone- BLINDLY. It's more a wanting to know what and why he's reccomending something (or not) iykwim? He's a GP, not an expert in everything medical. Having said that I also have questioned specialists when they have told me something, just so I understand for my own peace of mind. Maybe I'm in a minority lol ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 09 January 2011 at 10:38am
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I'm like that too Emmecat, I like all the opinions before I decide the best course of action, I never take prescription drugs without reading the insert and sometimes because of that I will decide not to take them and it's not just medical stuff it's all things I like to make informed decisions not place blind faith in professionals to always have the right answers. A lot of the times professionals change their opinions, have conflicting opinions and so forth. I mean look at all the varying parenting info that is out their and it all comes from "professionals".
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Posted By: Emmecat
Date Posted: 09 January 2011 at 11:14am
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lol I'm the same with life in general too ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: weegee
Date Posted: 09 January 2011 at 11:26am
Wow I just wanted to say - a vaxxing debate thread that is civil, and in which vaxxers and anti vaxxers have agreed they have common points! Well done everyone  ------------- 
Mum to JJ, 4 July 2008 & Addie, 28 July 2010 |
Posted By: Emmecat
Date Posted: 09 January 2011 at 12:37pm
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I was just thinking the same thing! ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Happy lady
Date Posted: 09 January 2011 at 2:17pm
I was also wondering if I should get the popcorn out..... but obviously not hehe ------------- http://lilypie.com">  
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Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 09 January 2011 at 4:37pm
Oh, just wait - everytime someone says something like that it all goes heated as if to prove them wrong. I like this way much better though  -------------
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Posted By: caliandjack
Date Posted: 09 January 2011 at 4:41pm
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I guess when it comes to vax I am trusting the years of experience and clinical experience of my gp and the health industry in general, much like I put my trust in my MW and her years of experience when it came to my pregnancy and birth I'd never done either before and if it had come to it would have had to rely on her to make any medical decisions on my behalf.
The trouble with 'research' is it seems as soon as one theory is proved another piece of research disproves it. I'd rather go with proven experience and success than a single piece of research to justify my decision. For me having DD vaccinated was a no-brainer its for her protection against disease. ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">   [/url] Angel June 2012 |
Posted By: Aquarius
Date Posted: 09 January 2011 at 9:51pm
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i dont quite know how to word this...
the decision is different when you have an autistic child already. my 10 yr old has autism and we are now faced with the vac for our third boy... i dont even think there is a link but yet because of this 'research' it weights heavy on my heart. our youngest is happy and thriving and when i think 'what if..' i dont know if its worth the risk...true or not... i just couldnt live with the decision if by some weird chance..it happened. i already know that he isnt displaying tendencies and things are developing nicely...so to fix something that aint broke scares me alot! i have vac all my kids so i am all for it...damn media the likes of jenny mccarthy (is that her name??) and holly robinson do not do this any favors. they are completely on the side that MMR vac DOES cause it so they weigh in regulary on the issue....argh. ------------- http://www.magicalkingdoms.com/timers/"> 
mum to mr 16 & mr 10 |
Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 10 January 2011 at 6:49am
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caliandjack the majority of us didn't choose not to vax cos of one piece of research this is exactly what we are saying. A lot of antivax or non vaxxers believe there is no link at all but still don't vax cos there's many other reasons not to.
Aquarius it's really hard and I would never tell you what to do either way but what I can recommend is to google MMR package insert which will give you a pdf from the merck website which has all the risks, contraindications etc in it (or ask your gp for one)and have a good read, then second read up on the illnesses themselves that way you can do a proper risk/benefit analysis. An important thing when you dont' vaccinate, I believe, is to have a very good understanding of the diseases. Also I believe Jenny McCarthy etc are actually concerned about thimerosal which isn't and never was in MMR, there are other autism/vaccination debates and in the US the link with thimerosal is the biggest one, thimerosal according to our goverment website on immunisations (immune.org.nz) removed thimerosal from our schedule in 2000 as one way of reducing mercury intake. Some people, like us, choose not to give the MMR because the rubella component is cultured on cell lines from an aborted baby, moral and religious objections to certain or in some cases all vaccines is more common than most people think. -------------
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Posted By: nicandtyler
Date Posted: 10 January 2011 at 7:42am
Have to agree with this, especially the first part. It wasn't one single piece of research that swayed me. Infact, before Tyler was born, I had every intention of vaxxing him (although i'd never researched it), but when he was born I began to question it, and then I talked to my sister who didn't vaxx her son. She lent me some books, one was really good which had pros/cons of vaxxing and info about the diseases etc, I also talked to everyone I knew that hadn't vaxxed and their reasoning behind it, did more and more research, talked to my doctor etc before I decided not to vaxx. I do have a few friends who vaxx and while I have absolutely no issues with that, they didn't know what injections they were getting at the appointments, or how many, or even what diseases they were getting vaxxed for, but its hard to talk to people about vaxxing because I would never want someone to feel that I was telling them what to do, because the only thing I believe in is informed choice. Its such a tricky subject, but I would never judge someone for their choice on vaxxing, as long as everyone makes an informed choice ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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April '11
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Posted By: peanut butter
Date Posted: 10 January 2011 at 8:13am
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I was having an interesting discussion with my GP (in the staffroom at work type of discussion) and she had vaxxed her daughter only to have a bad reaction to MMR at 15 months. So when it got to the 4yr vax she questioned the need and found that its only a catch up vax to get the 20% that didnt gain immunity first time round!!!!! If you wanted to get a blood test done to check immunity you could then avoid the 4yr vax. Now I am not sure I would want to put my child through a blood test...but it is worth thinking about. Especially if you were getting a blood test done for any other reason.
Dont get me wrong, I am pro - vax, but disagree with over vaxxing, or vaxing and already immune child "just because". I also dont fully trust the government to have the best vaccines available. As for people reacting to one piece of literature, just look at the supposed link between pamol and asthma. I know so many people who are terrified to use pamol AT ALL because they are worried that it WILL cause asthma. I am a health professional, used to hearing scientific research etc so I can understand these things but the majority of people (from my experience) dont have a clue and blindly trust the media...WHY would you ever trust the media? |
Posted By: Raspberryjam
Date Posted: 10 January 2011 at 8:26am
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Aquarius I get what you mean in some respects, my eldest has a serious heart condition and when facing decisions they may inadvertently affect her health its like playing russian roulet sometimes. You just hope and pray that you make the right decision, based of the information you have. Even having more children when you have a fragile child is nerve warcking, be nice to take the guess work out!
Be nice to think that media releases like this encourage parents to go oh hell, Id better check that out myself rather than oh well Im not gonna do that then ------------- http://lilypie.com]
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Posted By: caliandjack
Date Posted: 10 January 2011 at 11:13am
*like* ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> [/url] Angel June 2012 |
Posted By: kiwigal
Date Posted: 10 January 2011 at 11:50am
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I have a nearly 8 year old son with autism he was diagnosed when he was 22 months so Dh and I have been on the fence about the vax ever since. He was fully meeting his milestones than was like BAM straight after his jab he was a completely different baby went from smiling,/looking at you to pushing your face away as he didn't like us looking at him. After his diagnosis we never went back for the 4 year jabs as we are totally petrified on all the IF's which is what it is comes down to and doing what is best for our child/ren. When DD came along 3.5 years later Dh wanted to get her vax due to measles breakout she got the 6 weeks jabs at 5 months and the 5 months at 11-12 months. When she got the second one she went from babbling/talking lots to being completely quiet so it did raise some alarm bells for us. Luckily she went to her normally self again after a couple of weeks later. She is now 28 months and hasn't had anymore since then and is fully talking and healthy.
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Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 10 January 2011 at 1:59pm
*Double like* -------------
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Posted By: Raspberryjam
Date Posted: 10 January 2011 at 2:07pm
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I cant imagine how it feels to have an autistic child, my nephew has some issues that sound very similar, but I dont see him so I dont have any experience with autism but I will say reading some of the stories and opinions makes me quite mad at the drug companies etc - why the hell do parents have to walk around with their fingers crossed - we have enough to deal with ! wouild be most humane that they do a study and report the truth - instead of the phony sh*t that lines their pockets ------------- http://lilypie.com]
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 10 January 2011 at 4:13pm
Well it's the media saying he fabricated the study, so can you trust that? or did big pharma pay for that journalism? Just saying  When you read his side it's quite interesting, I am actually on the fence about whether he's even guilty or not, the parents of the children in the study are still on his side and weren't allowed to testify at his hearing, makes you wonder if he is the huge monster that the establishment and the media make him out to be.
On the other hand this guy loves vaccines and thinks all kids should get them forcibly by law and he has no other agenda, much, yet he barely gets a mention negatively in the media and often comes out voicing opinions on how safe vaccines are, greater claims than the manufacturers make and what a monster Wakefield is. This is one negative piece on him in the media http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uykFDR8USRg Oh and thank goodness our kids don't get 55 shots by age 6  -------------
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 10 January 2011 at 4:21pm
See this is why you can't trust your GP to have a great knowledge of vaccines, she should have already have known that the booster shot is not a booster shot at all and is only used to pick up those that didn't respond to the first round of jabs, all additional jabs are for that purpose. She only knows cos her OWN child had a reaction, what about her patients children? didn't they deserve her to already have that knowledge before giving vaccines out? The wording booster jab like immunisation is nothing more than false advertising. A second or third jab doesn't boost anything and a vaccination doesn't make you immune. -------------
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 10 January 2011 at 8:46pm
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oh for those interested in the other side of the news this is quite a good video on it(came up on my facebook newsfeed so rather good timing), was done during Wakefields hearing so a bit out of date but still, gives you the parents side of it which the main media doesn't and as we know you can't trust the media so best to get the opposite side for balance.
http://www.viddler.com/explore/ziggy/videos/1/3581.346/ -------------
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Posted By: myonlineself
Date Posted: 11 January 2011 at 11:37am
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The Wakefield study was in 12 children.... just saying :-) ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: caliandjack
Date Posted: 11 January 2011 at 12:09pm
That's the trouble I'm not interested and I don't care how you raise your children. Its none of my business.  ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> [/url] Angel June 2012 |
Posted By: susieq
Date Posted: 11 January 2011 at 1:39pm
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i dont think vacc and autism are related. ------------- susie |
Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 11 January 2011 at 2:52pm
I think you misunderstood my post. It is the otherside of the story for people who don't want to just eat up what the main stream media tells them. Plenty have a go at non vaxxers for believing the original study yet are quite happy themselves to now believe the media because it's sits better with their own decisions/opinions. It's not about you being interested in how I parent, it's about being interested in making a balanced and rounded opinion once you know both sides of the story, I would suggest people do that with all topics not just vaxxing. But as vaxxing effects the health of your children you should pay some attention to it. -------------
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Posted By: Raspberryjam
Date Posted: 11 January 2011 at 7:30pm
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popcorn time ------------- http://lilypie.com]
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Posted By: TheKelly
Date Posted: 11 January 2011 at 10:14pm
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...Hey Cuppatea,you're cuppatea again !
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Posted By: Plushie
Date Posted: 11 January 2011 at 10:21pm
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Dammit, who is Cuppatea, i recognize those tickers but can't quite place it....
Oh and following with great interest. |
Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 11 January 2011 at 10:44pm
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two_boys, I used to be cuppatea once a upon a time, figured I would change back as two_boys is not quite accurate anymore -------------
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