Sleep logs and no-cry solutions
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Topic: Sleep logs and no-cry solutions
Posted By: T_Rex
Subject: Sleep logs and no-cry solutions
Date Posted: 22 August 2010 at 7:03pm
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Ok, so I thought I'd start a thread for those of us using no-cry sleep solutions to share our logs, ideas and encouragement.
I'll start by sharing my first log in a minute, but first a few rules: Some of us are starting from fairly crap situations. I know that some of us have created some of our own problems, but for me at least, allowing this to happen was critical to our ability to survive the last 8 months. So lets not harp on about how we got here - the focus is where we go next. Feel free to share ideas and suggestions. They don't to be limited to those in Elizabeth Pantley's book. Try to be encouraging though 
Finally, NO CIO/CC suggestions. I appreciate that such techniques may have worked for you, but we have chosen not to use them, so please don't suggest them. This isn't a place to argue their merits or otherwise. They are simply off limits. Right ladies, lets get some babies sleeping  ------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com">
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Replies:
Posted By: myfullhouse
Date Posted: 22 August 2010 at 7:10pm
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Brilliant idea TRex. Will try and get my A into G and do a sleep log. Will start tomorrow as tonight hasn't been a typical night ------------- Lindsey 
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Posted By: T_Rex
Date Posted: 22 August 2010 at 7:14pm
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Baby T-Rex, 8 months, 21 August 2010.
Nap log: 3 naps - target is 2 4 hours sleep - target is 3-4 hours All naps required 20 mins of rocking with a dummy to get her to sleep, and she was on Daddy's lap for the entirety of all naps - he tried the cot a few times and she flat out refused. The rocking and dummy are currently our naptime routine, but the timing and duration of naps is very inconsistent between days. Pros - getting enough sleep Cons - only if she stays on our lap, so not ideal!! NIGHT LOG: Asleep time: 8.05pm Awake time 6.15am Awakenings: 5 Longest sleep: 2 hours Total sleep: 8hours, 10 minutes (target 11-12 hours) Most wakenings required feeding back to sleep. We have a good, consistent bedtime routine, and bedtime is usually between 7.30-8pm. Pros - she was in her cot all night!! (thats a big deal after nearly a month of co-sleeping). Cons - where do I start?! TOTAL SLEEP: 12 hours - 2 hours less than target of 14 hours. STRATEGIES: I will do these for 2 weeks, and then complete (and post) another sleep log. 1. Every day nap will be in the cot, not our laps (ok to get her to sleep on our laps though). 2. No co-sleeping - she will spend all night in her cot. 3. I will reinforce the pull-off the breast before falling asleep trick at night. 4. I will have her ready for bed by 6pm with the aim of having her in bed by 7. 5. No dummy in the night. 6. Her lovey "horse" will join all our night cuddles. So, thats me. Who is next? Dammit, she's awake! Gotta go. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: E&L+1
Date Posted: 23 August 2010 at 10:04am
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That looks good T-Rex. I was thinking about doing some more sleep logs to see if we can get better sleeping again! ------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Nutella
Date Posted: 23 August 2010 at 2:06pm
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I used to feed DS to sleep but decided to wean him off it so tried the taking him off when he was still awake/drowsy thing and gradually increased the wakefulness til he was settling by himself...worked really well!
I don't have a sleep log but I was thinking about starting a routine since we don't have one so maybe I will try that as well and post it once I have it figured out! ------------- 
 Oct 11
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Posted By: T_Rex
Date Posted: 23 August 2010 at 3:11pm
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I shouldn't boast, cos I know it'll probably wake her up, but DD is happily napping in the cot right now. We made her take all her naps in the cot yesterday, but they were considerably shorter. We've been out all day until now, and she's had a nap in the car and one in the manduca already, so I'm stoked she's staying down in the cot.
We were up 9 times last night, so I'm really hoping this is going to help. She doesn't always feed to sleep, but since we gave her the dummy a couple of months ago - to try and get some sleep out of her at daycare - she's got much worse at wanting to feed to sleep in the night. Sigh! A topdresser just swooped over the house... don't they know there is a baby trying to sleep?!  ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: myfullhouse
Date Posted: 23 August 2010 at 3:44pm
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Hope the top dresser didn't waker her!
That is great that she has been having her naps in the cot, well done! Give yourself a pat on the back for deciding to do something and sticking with it! ------------- Lindsey
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Posted By: Nutella
Date Posted: 23 August 2010 at 4:23pm
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Silly old top dresser....what a nerve that pilot has lol.
(Embarrassing, had to think about three times how to spell pilot) -------------
Oct 11
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Posted By: T_Rex
Date Posted: 23 August 2010 at 7:04pm
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Heh, yep, it did wake her up, or at least something did. So the cot nap only lasted 15 minutes, but we'll get there.
I've been doing well on getting her ready for bed by 6(ish!) and she's gone down by 7 for two nights in a row. It's amazing to have a bit of spare time in the evenings! I haven't had that in 8 months 
Looking forward to seeing some other (lack of) sleep logs ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: tiptoes
Date Posted: 23 August 2010 at 7:56pm
I think I'll join you girls, but might need to put a notebook out so I can remember what happens during the night, I've been having trouble remembering in the last week - maybe lack of sleep affecting my memory
What does the NCSS suggest for moving from patting/shushing? Just reducing it till you're not doing it anymore? Our current situation is: Rocking till calm or drowsy, then patting shushing till almost asleep or asleep. Sometimes I need to pick up and rock 2-3 times or else he wakes up too much and starts rolling back and fourth and playing games. Only takes 10-15 mins but ultimately I'd like to put him down calm or drowsy and then just leave the room. During the night this can take up to an hour and often I give in and rock till completely asleep. But then he might wake up half an hour later (whether I've rocked or patted/shushed) and after a couple of those I usually give in and just bring him to bed. We swaddle him still and he has a dummy, at some point I'll need to wean off that swaddle too I guess. We've had the same bed routine since he was a newborn and been on a nap routine for a good few months, naps have improved drastically, so hoping to do the same with nights. Night wakings are all over the show. I'll keep a log tonight to sort times. Goal: Sleep in his own cot from 7pm-7am. He's done it before, and was doing it a couple of times a week (the tease), but I'd say it's possibly been a couple of months since that last happened.------------- http://alterna-tickers.com">  
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Posted By: tiptoes
Date Posted: 24 August 2010 at 9:07am
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Ok, here's last nights sleep log:
In bed asleep 7.00pm. Awake 10.45pm - few mins 11.40pm - 20mins (maybe asleep 12am) 12.20am - woke again, re-wrapped, asleep without dummy straight away 4am - woke, grizzled on and off for really short periods (under a minute) but over 15 mins every couple of mins - tried to leave but wasn't going to sleep. 4.20am - brought into our bed, fell asleep straight away. 5.15am - brief cry for dummy 6.15am - Awake for day. So last night he didn't actualy wake for long periods of time, and one of the better sleeps was without the dummy. I probably should have tried to get him back to sleep in his cot at 4am but I knew he'd wake hourly from then. I don't get why he often wakes in the late evening? He used to do bigger sleeps than that when he was 6 weeks old! ------------- http://alterna-tickers.com">
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Posted By: Imogen
Date Posted: 24 August 2010 at 10:38am
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Great thread! I will have to get my A into G and record my sleep logs so I can post them in here... ------------- Proud mummy to two beautiful little girls and a precious little boy <3 |
Posted By: Nutella
Date Posted: 24 August 2010 at 11:10am
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What frustrates me is that DS goes to sleep on his own easily enough but then during the day if he wakes up during nap time, they he won't go back to sleep so his naps usually end up being only 1 hour. So what am I doing wrong?? So confusing, I thought when they self settled they were supposed to be better at going back to flippin sleep as well! -------------
Oct 11
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Posted By: T_Rex
Date Posted: 24 August 2010 at 12:34pm
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Lol Tali, I know. Why do these darn babies have their own ideas about everything? DD will randomly self settle sometimes first up, sometimes mid-sleep, but never reliably.
Chelle, what is Cooper eating? Could something in his solids be giving him a gassy tum or something? DD has just been diagnosed with an ear infection, so hopefully that explains last nights terrible sleeping! We had 3 hours of screaming, then 3 of sleep, then 2 of screaming again. I ended up climbing into her cot and feeding her to sleep both times, which I've never done before, lol. Good thing we have a sturdy cot, cos I ain't that light!! ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Imogen
Date Posted: 24 August 2010 at 12:58pm
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hehe T-Rex.....great mental picture there!
Im sure that DD ongoing ear infection has been one of the main issues with her sleeping lately! ------------- Proud mummy to two beautiful little girls and a precious little boy <3 |
Posted By: tiptoes
Date Posted: 24 August 2010 at 1:35pm
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Good point T_Rex, last night he had kumara, potato and pumpkin chunks and a yogurt - would any of those be gas causing? Sometimes when he does wake up he farts away hehe so definitely could be it. But I've got two different formula's and neither make a difference.
Weird about the nap thing Tali as Cooper is the opposite, he used to be a rubbish day sleeper and pretty ok night sleeper but now we often get two 1.5 hour naps a day but up all night so I was wondering if he can self settle during the day, why not at night! Also, I wonder why some days he still only has 2x 45 min naps, but luckily less often. I've never attempted to get into the cot, but sometimes I consider just laying down on the floor rather than waste my time going back to our room! By the way, your ticker always makes me do a double take, as it makes me think you're pregnant with the week showing
I hope those ear infections go away soon and you guys get some more sleep. ------------- http://alterna-tickers.com">
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Posted By: myfullhouse
Date Posted: 24 August 2010 at 1:57pm
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none of you are doing anthing wrong. tali 1hr may be all that he needs each time, ben will usually slepp 1h or 1h15min for each nap. 45min is a sleep cycle so my assumption is that if they wake after 1h then they have resettled at 45min then had enough at 1h. not sure if i am right!
didn't keep a sleep log last night as I had a playcentre meeting. however ben only woke twice. dh put him in our bed with him at 9.30pm when he woke the first time. i changed his bedtime routine and after we went into his room i read diff stories and gave him a back rub. he went to sleep so much easier. will try again tonight and see what happens. got the ideas from pinky mckay's book 'toddler tactics' she is having a teleseminar on thursday if you are interested, go to her website to register, i have sorry for poor typing, jack is asleep on my lap and i am typing 1 handed! ------------- Lindsey
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Posted By: Millyz
Date Posted: 24 August 2010 at 2:29pm
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Great thread T-Rex!
Just to add my two cents worth, my baby's sleep has drastically improved since getting rid of her dummy, she is now sleeping through the night. I firmly believe she goes to sleep faster and in general sleeps better overnight without it. Just thought I should mention it. We went cold turkey to get rid of it, wasn't as bad as I thought it would be but did involve some crying I'm afraid. Unfortunately this has meant that she'll sleep no longer than 45mins per nap during the day (one sleep cycle). I used to pop the dummy back in and get at least another hour out of her. Small sacrifice I think though. Any suggestions on how to lengthen the day sleeps or will they improve/lengthen as she gets older? ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: High9
Date Posted: 24 August 2010 at 4:15pm
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Millyz I read on the sleepstore website if you go into their room about 5-10mins before they wake and give them a little prod, enough for them to stir, not wake them up of course! They'll restart the sleep cycle and thus sleep longer. I don't prod Lily though, we have a noisey door handle that squeaks so I just turn the door handle and she stirs and goes back to sleep. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: Millyz
Date Posted: 24 August 2010 at 4:58pm
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Hi Nicole, thanks for that. I might give it a go - I think just opening the door should be enough too hopefully. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Nutella
Date Posted: 24 August 2010 at 5:20pm
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Oh that is interesting, I used to rewrap DS if I managed to catch him before he work but have since stopped wrapping.
Really, I am pretty lucky as he goes down at 6 and normally only wakes once during the night then up for the day at 6.30 so if I need to I can get things done once he goes to bed lol. Plus he is normally pretty chirpy during the day despite sometimes only having an hour sleep waa. Am just starting to get a routine going now...seems easier to do now he is eating solids...I dunno why! Obviously I like to plan my days around meal times lol. The one thing I did was give DS a toy to cuddle and he loves it and will lie in bed talking to it hehe. He never liked the dummy so lucky for us didn't have to wean off that...but did have to wean off feed to sleep which wasn't as bad as I feared. Urgghghh listen to me rabbit on hehe -------------
Oct 11
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Posted By: Kalimirella
Date Posted: 24 August 2010 at 5:50pm
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Hmm for helping my bubby to settle herself (more during the day I guess) was to hang her pillow case which is mellow yellow with ducks on it on her cot so she can see it. She just stares and chats and then sucks on her fingers and I presume she goes to sleep as I don't hear her for another 2 hours usually.
I found very gradually weaning off feeding to sleep at night worked for my baby. (Shes pretty laid back though). I just timed BF, then cut by half each night. Did take a week to show any results and a lot of patting and singing lullabies. But now she "usually" will sleep 7 to 7. Though teething atm she was back up a couple of times at night but seems to have resettled back down. I'm lucky though she has never had bad problems with getting to sleep and staying there. ETA, I probably jinxed it for my next one!!! ------------- Kiara is 3 and Teagan is 2, now we're expecting our long awaited 3rd! http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: High9
Date Posted: 24 August 2010 at 7:27pm
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I weaned the feeding to sleep at 4 months which was when she learned to self settle too but I didn't really have a choice, she would have a feed when she got up and be up for an hour and then a feed to sleep but she was getting too much fore milk (although still putting on great weight) so now she gets up and has a play and a nappy change if need be and then half way through her wake time she has a feed and then some more play and then bed (usually up for 1.5 hours) ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: maisey
Date Posted: 25 August 2010 at 10:13am
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Great thread! Lil_Nic, how did you know your DD was getting too much foremillk? ------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: High9
Date Posted: 25 August 2010 at 3:00pm
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I didn't until I spoke to someone who really knew about breast feeding - she was from BFNZ and was at the Big latch on in Wgtn but I'm not sure of her name, I think it was Penny and she's a LC also. (spoke to her at the parent and child show though not the big latch on!)
Anyway I just said I am fully BF my baby and she does foamy poos sorta like bubble bath or dishwashing liquid bubbles! And she goes - too much foremilk! How does your baby feed and then she had me just feed 1 side per feed rather than 2 sides - 1 when she got up and another when she went to sleep about an hour later. I suggest though if you have ANY BF issues to speak to a LC though because we also have other issue re food too. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: LeeBee
Date Posted: 25 August 2010 at 4:37pm
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Hi ladies - I am following this thread with interest. My DD is just coming up 3 months and while she sleeps great at night (just one wake up at around 3am between 7pm and 7am) she is terrible during the daytime. I am about to make the move to her cot from the bassinet so I am hoping things will gradually improve on their own. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: T_Rex
Date Posted: 25 August 2010 at 4:44pm
 I am struggling a bit, must admit.
DH had to leave for work at 6 this morning, when he usually takes DD for an hour or so while I sleep. I'd been up for 15 minutes every 90 minutes all night, so I brought her and the dummy to bed with me at 6.30 and we both slept through until 8. I needed the sleep, but it broke two of our rules 
I've just spent an hour trying to get DD down in the cot for a nap but have failed. She's awake now. She's only had 2 very short naps so far today - both in the cot, but still not a very encouraging day. I am so bloody tired !! 
Someone on the previous page talked about weaning off the dummy - how long did it take before your bub would settle without it? ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: HippyMama
Date Posted: 25 August 2010 at 8:20pm
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I think one of the points Pantley makes in her book is that if things turn completely pearshaped, it is OK to break the "rules" to get you through / back to a point where you feel you can cope and then start again... but then I am one who really just skim read it and took out what I considered to be a handful of useful 'tips'.
------------- Mama to two earth walkers & two angels. Remember, you are not managing an inconvenience; You are raising a human being. ~ Kittie Franz Next Slingbabies! Meet - Friday 4th May !! |
Posted By: Millyz
Date Posted: 26 August 2010 at 10:05am
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That was me T-Rex re the dummy.
It took 25 minutes the first time for her to go to sleep without the dummy (she cried but not hard out, I went in and reassured her every 5 minutes). Next time was 6 minutes!! That was three weeks ago and its settled into a routine of her going to bed, has a grizzle/talk/squeal! for anywhere between 5-15 minutes and then goes to sleep. I certainly haven't felt the need to give it back to her and its like she never had it. I assume she's waking in the night and self settling as I don't hear from her till 6-7am (she goes to bed at 7pm). Hope that helps! ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Imogen
Date Posted: 26 August 2010 at 3:36pm
So true. Dont be too hard on yourself T-Rex!! Your doing a great job and sometimes you just have to do certain things to get a bit of sleep. ------------- Proud mummy to two beautiful little girls and a precious little boy <3 |
HippyMama wrote:Posted By: T_Rex
Date Posted: 27 August 2010 at 4:50pm
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Thanks for the encouragement
After another shocker of a night last night, I went back to the doctor today, turns out she has an ear infection in the other ear now (explains the vicious biting that she was up to last night - was like BF an alligator  ), so she has a stronger antibiotic now. Poor bub has been sick for over 2 months now, so great to finally find a doctor who is taking us seriously!
Chelle (I think it was Chelle?) - those foods don't sound particularly gassy, except maybe the yoghurt? If he gets the same foods most nights, perhaps you could try dropping one each night and just feed the other 3, and see if you get any improvement. Otherwise, could it be temperature-related? Thanks Millyz for the dummy comments. That is next on my list of things to target once this ear infection business lets up. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: tiptoes
Date Posted: 27 August 2010 at 8:33pm
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Thanks T-Rex, yogurt was a random one to do in the evening for us but I've cooked up some carrots and parsnips tonight so I'll give him those and maybe some corn fritters tomorrow night and see how that goes.
Your poor little baby being sick for so long. Hopefully these antibiotics do the trick. I think the night before last we ended up having a pretty good one and he slept through to almost 5am, then I just bought him in bed with us for an hour or so before he decided it was morning, but that was fine. Last night not so good, but I'm a bit fuzzy about what times the wakeups were. I think it went something like: 7pm - bed 8pm - woke up screaming hard, but resettled pretty quickly 9pm - cried out once but then went straight back to sleep 12am - awake again, don't remember how long it took to resettle maybe 10-20mins 4am - wide awake staring at me when I tried to rock him, bought him into bed but wriggly and uncomfy 5am - Gave him milk to see if it would make him sleepy, worked for 10 mins, but then awake again. 6.15am - Finally asleep 7.15am - Awake! Only had 2x 45 min naps all day but he's been happy as. I'm tired and really should go to bed but feel like having some 'me' time. ------------- http://alterna-tickers.com">
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Posted By: tiptoes
Date Posted: 30 August 2010 at 7:48pm
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What happened to everyone's sleep logs
A fourth tooth popped through over the weekend and last night we just had one wake up at 3.45am, then I bought him into bed. So pretty happy with that. One more tooth looking like it's ready to come through too so I'm hoping after this lot maybe sleep will settle down - we've had 4 teeth in 6 weeks so far, so I guess that's a lot happening in his little mouth. ------------- http://alterna-tickers.com">
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Posted By: T_Rex
Date Posted: 30 August 2010 at 8:50pm
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Lol Chelle. I'm planning another one on Friday. Every 2 weeks is my aim atm.
You have done well with just one wakeup while teeth are coming through! I'm having a mare of a night already. DD STILL won't go down in her cot despite being exhausted and us trying to settle her since 6pm She's got her top teeth coming through, and is getting snotty and coughing AGAIN.
------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: myfullhouse
Date Posted: 12 September 2010 at 6:13pm
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I would love some advice please!!I need/want to change quite a bit about Ben's sleeping but I don't know where to start
Here is pretty much how things go: Bedtime routine - dinner, shower with Jack and DH, dressed. Thomas DVD, then into the bedroom Bedroom - read a few basic books, bf, backrub and 'thing' that projects light onto walls/ceiling in start shapes Cuddle/rock/jiggle/pace to sleep - whatever works at the time. Generally no more than 30mins Asleep by about 7.30pm Good night: wake up 9.30/10.30pm Bad night: wake up 45-60min after going to sleep Depending on how I feel Ben ends up in our bed anytime from 9.30pm to about midnite Wakes 1-2 times probably in our bed and bf to sleep what I would like to change:
I think the sleeping in our bed comes from separation anxiety maybe and he is used to it as it has been the only way I coped for the last 6mths with bad teething and waking every 1-2hrs So what do I tackle first? I am so tired I just can't seem to decide where to start and how. I have trouble perservering as well as I wish it would all just happen stright away. Ben is also a stubborn little toad and I know he will resist any change no matter how fast or slow I go
HELP please! Oh and sorry for the novel! ------------- Lindsey
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Posted By: T_Rex
Date Posted: 12 September 2010 at 7:26pm
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Heh, was meaning to update this thread - I've not done another sleep log yet as poor DD has yet another ear infection so her sleep is utter crap and a log of no progress will just depress me.
We have managed to get her sleeping all night in her cot though, which is progress. So I might be able to help there Linzy
Seeing as Ben sleeps in it for the first part of the night, it probably won't be too hard on him, just on you! It IS harder to get up again and again and again, and I know how much easier it is to just come back to your bed with him. I had to make it a rule that she wasn't to come back to bed at all. And if I broke the rule in desperation (which I do sometimes, but only when I'm desperate) then next time she wakes up, I go back to her room with her, feed her in the chair and into the cot. I've had to get DH to tend to her sometimes (can he settle Ben?). Things that have helped are having a really comfy lazy boy in her room, so it's comfy and relaxing to be in there with her, rather than craving my bed the whole time. I would probably tackle the in-the-cot thing and/or the settling in the cot first. Are you or DH able to pat/jiggle him to sleep in the cot? (I can't - DD either gets up and crawls away, or screams and fights being held in place, however, she is sometimes happy to lie there and hold DH's hand whilst falling asleep). I've found with me she wants to be held close, whereas with DH she's not as clingy. With the BF, are you wanting to quit completely, or just at night? Maybe get DH to do the night wakings for a bit so he doesn't expect a feed seeing as it's Dad. As of tonight we have a new strategy (we'll see if it works) but basically DD isn't to be fed within 3 hours of her previous feed. If (lol, WHEN) she wakes up before that, DH is to get her and resettle her (with the dummy if necessary) and if its been 3 hours or more since her last feed, I'll get her and feed her. If that seems to work, we are going to stretch out the time between feeds gradually. I dunno if any of that is any help - I'm definitely not an expert on sleep, just on lack of it but best of luck!!
ETA. The first few nights back in her cot there were more night wakings, but after that, there weren't any more than we were getting when co-sleeping anyway. The difference is I have to get up to tend to her, not just roll over, but on the other hand I get a much nicer sleep without her hands/feet all over me all night! ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: myfullhouse
Date Posted: 12 September 2010 at 8:20pm
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Thanks T_Rex. It sounds like you are making progress which is great
DH has never settled Ben to sleep, except a few times when he has done it in the pushchair. It is kind of a habit we fell into and DH settles Jack to bed while I put Ben to bed. It is something I want to change but I need to work on stopping bfing to sleep or to calm and maybe get him settling in the cot. I have managed to get him to settle in the cot a few times from awake and several times when he has woken after being put in the cot asleep. He is alot like your DD and doesn't want to lie down. Tried it last night and he just got worked up. I have tried the rule about keeping him in his cot but I break it out of desperation and it doesn't take much to get to that point lately! I might try it again as of Friday night that way I can try for a sleep in if necessary and I will have DH here to deal with the boys first thing I am also an expert on lack of sleep I haven't had a full nights sleep since sometime in my pg with Jack so over 3yrs! Jack adds to the situation by not sleeping thru either, he crawls into our bed some time in the night and I don't even wake. Then I end up sandwiched between the boys on about 60% of the bed.
Oh the joys of motherhood! Thanks for the support, this thread is great. Each to their own but I am not a fan of CC or CIO and I got tired of asking for help and those being the only suggestions offered Good luck for your new plan tonight! ETA: I think Ben will be hard to wean so my aim is to have him weaned by the end of the year. He is a boob addict plus it is an ingrained part of his nap/bedtime routine. I think I will have to stop bfing completely for AF to return. Gosh who would have thought I actually would want AF back  ------------- Lindsey
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Posted By: HippyMama
Date Posted: 12 September 2010 at 10:18pm
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I'm sure I've mentioned this before Linzy, but have you started tracking your cycles yet? Just because you aren't bleeding doesn't mean you aren't fertile
As for the sleep thing, this is what I can give you off the top of my (tired! LOL) head: * Make his bedtime a bit later? * Too much visual stimulation before bed with the DVD? We tend to have TV off in the immediate hour before bed. * I am wondering about this light projector thing too, does he get upset if it's not there? * How much protein does he get in his diet during the day? I have heard it suggested that this can sometimes influence their sleep, as it fills them up for longer and burns off more slowly. Maybe start with night-weaning him first? The way that I have been contemplating going about it when I feel the time is right for us (soon maybe but not yet) would be to push out the length of the gap after first going down to sleep, until when I would be happy to use breastfeeding to resettle. For example, asleep at 7:30pm, any wakes before midnight get cuddles back to sleep unless in pain or other distress that cannot be resolved another way. Do that for a week, then the next week push the 'limit' out to 1am, then the next week 2am etc. It will probably mean a lot of getting up and down, but it seems to be a slow and gentle option to me that doesn't involve CC or CIO. Last suggestion, does he have music? That is about the only thing going on in DD2's room at bedtime, at night I navigate by the light of my cellphone, and have some instrumental relaxation music on just quietly in the CD player next to her cot. ------------- Mama to two earth walkers & two angels. Remember, you are not managing an inconvenience; You are raising a human being. ~ Kittie Franz Next Slingbabies! Meet - Friday 4th May !! |
Posted By: myfullhouse
Date Posted: 13 September 2010 at 9:52am
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Yeah you have mentioned charting before and I read up on it but it seemed that you had to take your temp at the same time each day and with Ben's waking all the time I thought it might be too unreliable. Plus it just seemed like one more thing to do. But maybe I will have a chat with the Charting girls. Plus it might mean I don't have to wean which is my preference
Bedtime isn't so much the issue, it is the resettling that is hard. Last evening I tried not to resettle with a bf (have tried before as well with the midnight rule) and he just got himself worked up so I ended up feeding him back to sleep anyway, decided I would work on getting him in his cot all night first. He woke at about 10.30pm and I had only just gone to bed. He just wouldn't settle not matter what, he was so restless and I ended up taking him to bed with me. He tossed and turned for a minute or 2 and went to sleep *sigh* Haven't tried music in a while. We used it with Jack (didn't seem to make a difference for him) and wore out 2 CD players and just haven't got round to buying another one Sorry I must sound so flakey. I am just so weary which is making me very indecisive. I have been dreaming alot lately too which means the sleep I do get isn't very restful. This is really my only form of support as well. DH is great but he has no ideas on what to do and just says he will go with/support what I decide to do, which is great but not always helpful. Mum is a good sounding board but like DH doesn't really have any ideas. And my RL friends haven't gone through this or have used CC/CIO I know I just need to make a decision and stick to it but that seems so much easier said than done at the moment Sorry for the grumbling! ------------- Lindsey
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Posted By: kezza2112
Date Posted: 13 September 2010 at 1:05pm
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Hi there
This is my 6.5 months son's log. Its driving me nuts. I am parenting alone with a 12 yr old son as well. Also work part time. 3 x 45 min sleeps during the day. Two at preschool, one at home. All using dummy 7:30 pm - bath etc 9 pm - head off to bed, feed him to sleep, he goes to sleep straight away wrapped without dummy. 11 pm - wakes up unwrapped, rewrap and dummy goes back to sleep 12:30 am same as above 1:15 am - wakes up unwrapped, won't resettle, so bottle 3 am - wakes up unwrapped, re wrap goes back to sleep with dummy 4:30 am - wakes up ready to play. Feed, re wrap, sleeps with me for rest of night. If I fart or snore he wakes up. Very light sleep till about 6:30 am. Don't really want to let him cry but.......he just won't sleep more than 2 hrs at the most. Any tips or do I have to bite the bullet and let him cry? |
Posted By: HippyMama
Date Posted: 13 September 2010 at 1:22pm
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I personally would strongly recommend not letting your son cry it out, it is likely to be even more stressful for the both of you. What about looking at a copy of Pantley's 'No Cry Sleep Solution' kezza?
Linzy - sorry, I should have been clearer - I never did charting but I used an ovulation scope instead... sod waking at the exact same time every morning to take and write down my temp! LOL I got a Maybe Baby one second hand off TM, or there are a few places you can buy them new online - more expensive but IMO worth the money. All you really need for those is a bit of saliva, and patience
Hugs to all, it's hard work, but it isn't forever! ------------- Mama to two earth walkers & two angels. Remember, you are not managing an inconvenience; You are raising a human being. ~ Kittie Franz Next Slingbabies! Meet - Friday 4th May !! |
Posted By: myfullhouse
Date Posted: 13 September 2010 at 1:26pm
That's what I keep trying to remind myself! Thanks will look into the scope ------------- Lindsey
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Posted By: kezza2112
Date Posted: 13 September 2010 at 4:49pm
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[QUOTE=HippyMama] I personally would strongly recommend not letting your son cry it out, it is likely to be even more stressful for the both of you. What about looking at a copy of Pantley's 'No Cry Sleep Solution' kezza?
.Where do you get it from?? Is it not for older babies?? Mind you this bubba is no small fry. Over 10 kg, 3 meals a day and about the size of a 1 yr old! |
Posted By: T_Rex
Date Posted: 13 September 2010 at 8:11pm
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Kezza, it's for all ages of babies. You could try the library or whitcoulls. It's not hard to find
If you read the first post of this thread, suggestions involving crying are banned from this thread - if you want ideas to avoid crying, try the book and hang out in here; if you want someone to validate you leaving him to cry, have a look in other sleep threads - there are plenty with suggestions that include crying .
Linzy, there is a comment in the NCSS about only a truly sleep deprived person could really understand being too tired to put a concerted effort into fixing the things that were disrupting your sleep. Sounds like you are one of them, and I'm one of them too. You don't sound flakey to me you, you sound TIRED and I understand, I really do 
Would it help to put his cot up against your bed for a bit? Or we slept DD in a single bed butted up between our bed and the wall, just so that I got a few weeks respite from the endless getting up and it has (so far!!) been enough to give me a wee bit of energy to tackle the sleep again. It was my exhaustion that was the undoing of us last time. So maybe you need to do what is best for you for a wee bit until you are not feeling quite so shattered? Last night our plan was DH to get up to her if it had been less than 3 hours since the start of her last feed... He didn't have to get up until 4am!! Of course, he never got to come back to bed cos she wouldn't go back down in her cot so she slept on his lap in the lazy boy, but still. That is huge progress! She had a 3.5 hour sleep and a 2.5 hour sleep. Amazing!! It's the same plan again tonight. I can't tell you how good it feels to go to bed knowing that I'll get at least a couple of hours in a stretch cos DH will get up in between ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: myfullhouse
Date Posted: 13 September 2010 at 8:25pm
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That's great T_Rex that you got some sleep! Good luck for tonight!
So I have come up with yet another plan! Tonight I have wrapped Ben and will see how that goes. He is still wrapped during the day and he sleeps well but I had stopped at night cos it seemed to hard with him in our bed. I had hoped that being unwrapped at night might help me wean him off it so starting to wrap again feels like going backwards but if we all get to sleep then oh well *sigh* I had wondered about putting the cot next to our bed but as he sleeps well during the day I still wanted to keep his cot in his room, so was thinking I would have to hire a cot. Hadn't thought about the spare bed next to our bed, will try that if the wrapping doesn't work, thanks T_Rex Kezza, the book should be available at your library, bookstores or even Trade Me. To me it sounds like it could be coming unwrapped that is causing the waking. Maybe you could either try and wean off the wrap or try different ways to keep the wrap on, try http://www.ohbaby.co.nz/Forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=34871&KW=swaddle - this thread ------------- Lindsey
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Posted By: T_Rex
Date Posted: 14 September 2010 at 7:59pm
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We got nearly 6 hours in a stretch last night, which is previously unheard of and sooo much better than the every 20-45 minutes we've often had lately. I only had to get up twice - it was the best night she's ever had!! It's taken a good 3-4 weeks to see any progress, but I *think* we are finally getting somewhere, fingers crossed!
And while I was sitting up feeding my girl, I was thinking of more ideas that might help you Linzy. I wondered whether you could put the spare bed right up against the cot (with or without the side on the cot) and you sleep in there, so that he has you beside him and you don't have to get up to him, but he's getting used to sleeping all night in the cot. It might let Jack get too comfy in your spot in your usual bed though
If wrapping works, go with it, I think. Does he have a cuddly of some kind? I've made a real effort to involve DD's cuddly in our cuddles recently and I think it's helped. I also slept with it in my bed for a couple of nights first. I often had to call DH to bring it to me out of the cot because I'd forget and then be feeding DD already, but we persisted for a few weeks and now it does seem to help a bit. That's all I can think of for now - I'm sure I had more ideas at 1am 
Kezza, was also thinking about you, and I agree with Linzy, he's probably waking up because he's getting unwrapped, so maybe it's time to stop wrapping or to find a new wrap? I also wondered if life would be easier for you if you co-slept? It does make the night wakings easier on you, and it can't be easy doing it on your own! I hope you get more sleep soon ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: myfullhouse
Date Posted: 14 September 2010 at 8:55pm
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Thanks so much T_Rex for thinking of me! Am in a real dark hole at the moment, 2hrs to get Ben to sleep tonight. Wrap didn't work last night but trying again tonight.
Will post again tomorrow when I am in a better frame of mind. FX for another good night T_Rex ------------- Lindsey
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Posted By: tiptoes
Date Posted: 15 September 2010 at 1:37pm
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Sorry to hear you had a real rough night Linzy
I'm thinking I really need to get Cooper back into the cot as he keeps getting dangerously close to the edge of the bed and last night I woke to find him with his head dangling off. We've got a single mattress downstairs so might have to get DH to bring it up so there's at least a soft landing. Freaked me out. I can't put him in the middle as if he sees DH he gets way too excited and starts whacking him and chatting away and then he's wide awake. I doubt DH would think that's all that funny at 4am (though I might a little haha) ------------- http://alterna-tickers.com">
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Posted By: T_Rex
Date Posted: 15 September 2010 at 8:07pm
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Oh Chelle, that sounds scary. Could you push the bed up against a wall for a bit?
Linzy, I'm sorry to hear you are struggling. I know that dark hole fairly well myself, life is so HARD when you are so tired. Hang in there It WILL get better.
Earlier bedtimes have helped here I think. It's makes life difficult - we get home from work and immediately have to feed DD and then bath and bed. Doesn't always work, but when it does it is amazing to get an hour or so to myself before bed! What time do you usually start settling Ben? ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: myfullhouse
Date Posted: 15 September 2010 at 8:28pm
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We usually head into the bedroom about 6.30/7pm depending on how everything goes before hand and how tired he seems. Took and hour tonight. I have been trying to settle him while sitting in the chair in his room as pacing gets tiring but again tonight he was so restless, almost getting to sleep then waking and figgiting. So I ended up lying on the bed in his room with him and he went to sleep in probably 5mins. So I have left him in the bed . I have put a pillow beside him and tucked the blankets in tight as well as big cushions on the floor. Will see what happens
I gave him some relaxing drops and I have taken some too so that hopefully the sleep I do get will be restful rather than full of dreams The only other thing I can think of is that he might be ready to drop a nap. However he would have to hold out till after midday due to kindy pick up, but I don't think he would last that long. Will keep this in mind and see how we go over the next few days Hope everyone has a good night ------------- Lindsey
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Posted By: E&L+1
Date Posted: 16 September 2010 at 10:53am
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I need to start doing sleep logs again. Esme has started waking about 2-3 hourly again. I have been feeding before her sleeps during the day lately as that seems to be the only way I can get her to have a nap now that she is crawling and pulling herself up. Might have to try weaning her off that so that she doesn't have it as a cue. She still self settles for most sleeps so the feed is more of a wind down. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: millymollymandy
Date Posted: 16 September 2010 at 1:59pm
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Linzy,
Have been thinkng of your challenges. The one thing that I can think of worth changing, (that fits with what you want to), is to cut out the telly between bath and rest of routine (I think I read that what happens). Telly's really stimulating and the advice I have had is to not incorporate it as bedtime routine thing as can undo all the relaxing stuff of a bath. I guess you are bust with other kids, but would he look at pictures on his room floor or in a chair or something? Just I a thought though. |
Posted By: myfullhouse
Date Posted: 16 September 2010 at 9:28pm
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Thanks for all your support and thoughts ladies.
Bathtime at our place is definately NOT relaxing, it is full of slashing and laughing and excitement as DH does it and he will have only just got home beforehand. So it is unbelieveable but the DVD is actually quite calming and relaxing for them, it is about the only time they sit quietly, plus it is a good distraction while trying to get wriggle bum aka Ben dressed. I am actually starting to wonder if he is teething again . I could be clutching at straws but the restlessness and runny nose are signs for him. That is what has stuffed us up this year, 16 teeth in just over 6mths . I suppose if it is his 2yrs olds then at least they will hopefully be over and done with soon.
Might just go with the flow for another day or so and see what happens. Might look to putting the bed from Ben's room into our, at least then we will have more room and I will sleep better. Hope you all have a good night ------------- Lindsey
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Posted By: kezza2112
Date Posted: 17 September 2010 at 3:27pm
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Right..things are just crazy with mr 7 months here and his sleeping. Up at 12 am, and every 30 min from then till 3 am where he wouldn't go back to sleep until 4 am!!! Then up again at 5:30 am!! I agree with the wrapping, so have bought a peke moe wrap fo Trade me. I so hope this helps.....will let everyone know.
I also thought babies were meant to sleep 12 -14 hrs.....pppbbttthhh!! This one doesn't :( Hope everyone else's bubbas are getting better at z z z z z z...... |
Posted By: T_Rex
Date Posted: 17 September 2010 at 8:05pm
Linzy, there is nothing wrong with using something like this as a permanent solution. If it works for you all to get a good nights sleep and you are happy with it, don't let anyone else tell you that you need to do otherwise. Co-sleeping both your boys is only a problem if it bothers YOU/DH. They are still little, and they will eventually learn to sleep in their own rooms! I remember you asking about sibling beds at one point (that was you, right?). That might be a good idea to get them both out of your room in a few months, cos I think Ben is a bit young yet, isn't he? Do the boys share a room now? ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: myfullhouse
Date Posted: 18 September 2010 at 2:28pm
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No the boys have their own rooms and I think I need to at least get Ben settling in the bed rather than me pacing the floor before I go for the sibling bed. Co-sleeping isn't a problem in theory, it is the fact that our bed really isn't big enough if they are both in there. As I said to my aunt this morning, I am sure they will be out of our bed by the time they are 16!
Have decided to wean so settled Ben to sleep for his first nap this morning with no bf, just a drink of milk. Will continue this week and drop the afternoon nap bf next weekend. I think he is too addicted and it often seems the only way he gets comfort. Had a Playcentre AGM last night and both boys were awake when I got home grrrrr! Had been awake since 9.30pm as DH finally got Ben to sleep in the lounge on him and Jack woke and then woke Ben. Need Ben to be able to take comfort from others and from me in others ways than bf How is everyone else going? ------------- Lindsey
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Posted By: T_Rex
Date Posted: 18 September 2010 at 7:11pm
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Good luck with the weaning! I hope it helps things (and brings your AF back - and that your next one is an excellent sleeper ). DH has been able to settle DD for the last couple of months (I had swine flu, so we had to force it cos I was exhausted), it hasn't helped her sleep, but it has certainly made a difference to my ability to cope!
Kezza, I hope the pokemoe helps things. Sadly the 12-14 hours is an average - and some of us have to have short sleepers to make up for those lucky devils that have great sleepers! We certainly don't get that kind of sleep here either!! We seem to have turned a corner, kind of . This week we've had several good nights, which is previously unheard of!! She has cut one of her front top teeth, and the other one is bothering her quite a bit, so we've also had a couple of really crap nights, but I finally feel like there is light at the end of the tunnel. A long way to go - currently these good nights consist of one 3 hour stretch so still far from great - but finally I think that we WILL get there one day. Anyway, I'm doing another sleep log tonight so will post that tomorrow night once I've logged her day naps as well.
I hope there is good sleep in all our houses tonight (somewhat overly optimistic perhaps?!) ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 18 September 2010 at 9:27pm
Linzy we moved DD's bed into our room about 3 months ago as she wouldn't settle well at night and would wake so often. She now goes to bed well and usually comes into our bed when we go. It means that I end up getting a more restful sleep even if it is little sleep. Also if you need to borrow a cot for a bit we have one here that isn't being used 
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Posted By: HippyMama
Date Posted: 18 September 2010 at 9:45pm
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Just a quick mention before I head to bed... we've started to see a little more consistency in DD2's sleep at night, but then *drumroll* she has FINALLY got teeth! It only took 13.5 months, and the clever cookie has decided to cut her molars first too - so, given we've had such a respite from it all, I can't really begrudge her for being grumpy / clingy / unsettled... those buggers must really hurt trying to come through her tender wee gums. Just have to soldier on really! ------------- Mama to two earth walkers & two angels. Remember, you are not managing an inconvenience; You are raising a human being. ~ Kittie Franz Next Slingbabies! Meet - Friday 4th May !! |
Posted By: myfullhouse
Date Posted: 18 September 2010 at 9:54pm
Thanks for the offer, it is much appreciated, I think we will be ok with the spare bed if we decide to go down that route. Congrats re the teeth HippyMama!! T_Rex, glad you can see some light at the end of the tunnel, it gets awfully dark sometimes doesn't it!?! Ben was really restless to settle to sleep tonight. Finally put bonjela on and I think I felt a little bump so it could be his 2yr olds. Will see what I can see/feel tomorrow. If it is then I know that there is no point trying to make changes until they cut. ------------- Lindsey
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Posted By: tiptoes
Date Posted: 18 September 2010 at 10:32pm
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Yay, for teeth popping through and helping out with sleep. DS has had 3 in the last month and another on it's way so probably half of our problems too. My copy of the No Cry Sleep Solution arrived on Thursday afternoon and I've just finished reading through it (or at least most of it) so now just have to do my plan and work out where I'm going to start. For some of my resettling I'm already between phase 4 and 5 out of 6 so that's positive! Though, my beginning settling is really only at phase1/2 (pg149 if you're not sure what I'm on about).
There was some good info about getting rid of the dummy/feeding to sleep too. A few pages back someone was keen to get rid of the dummy, so I thought I'd share what's in the book. It pretty much says once sucking slows and your baby is relaxed and sleepy, break the seal with your finger and gently remove your nipple. Then gently hold their mouth closed with your finger under the chin, or apply pressure to the chin, just under his lips at the same time as rocking or swaying. If he struggles and fusses just replace the nipple but repeat the removal process as often as necessary until he falls asleep. Same idea for getting rid of the dummy. I might try it for the dummy as some of Cooper's wakings are just for the dummy. They're really quick but if he didn't have it and didn't call out at all that would be better. Also there's a good idea about having the mattress beside the bed, and then once DS is asleep get back in our bed and then after a week or two do the same with the mattress in his bed and then I guess back in his cot. I'm not sure why he'll sleep for ages in his cot like 7pm-4.30am the other night, but then won't go back to sleep in his cot but is fine in our bed. That's actually not all that bad as only a couple of hours, it's more the nights when he won't go back in at 11.30pm as then none of us get a decent sleep. ------------- http://alterna-tickers.com">
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Posted By: T_Rex
Date Posted: 19 September 2010 at 8:54am
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Heh, well I ditched my sleep log after about the 8th wakeup at 9pm last night It was an absolute shocker of a night - we were up from 1-4 and an awful lot of other times too. Poor little thing is cutting her second top front tooth and isn't enjoying it much. Ended up giving her a little rolling pin to chew on for 10 minutes after 3 hours of crying (and teeth spray and ice and pamol etc) and that did the trick and we got nearly 2 hours of sleep for the night.
She seems happier now, so we'll try again tonight if that tooth comes through today. Hope everyone else did better than that last night! ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: myfullhouse
Date Posted: 27 October 2010 at 8:02pm
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I haven't been on in a while, lots to do in the evenings. I haven't had a chance to read back though the other posts but thought I would let you know how we are going. I haven't been doing sleep logs but have noticed improvement in bedtime. Here is what I have changed:
Ben has been moved to 1 nap. I have noticed that when I can get him down for about 11am he sleeps a solid 1.5-2hrs no problems, but on Jack's kindy days I have to hold him out till 12 (after kindy pick up) and Ben usually wakes after 45mins and has to be resettled. I am trying to get him down earlier in the evening to see if that makes a difference I have weaned him from his bedtime bf (still bf to sleep at nap and during the night). Using gradual methods to wean from bedtime bf were disasterous so went cold turkey and give a sipper of cows milk instead and no real problems I am playing an audio book for him while he has cows milk and I rock him and he is going to sleep heaps faster at night. Tonight he was asleep about 20mins after going into his room, max it is taking me 30min. The audio book is great as it gives him something to concentrate on and it calms him Nightime wakes ups are still plentiful some nights but I leave him in his bed as long as I can each night before bringing him into our bed Future plans: wean nap bf then middle of the night bfs. Get DH to settle him at bedtime. Once all this is established work towards Ben settling in his bed with help and then hopefully settling without help. Hope everyone else is getting some progress and sleep! ------------- Lindsey
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Posted By: T_Rex
Date Posted: 28 October 2010 at 11:23am
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Good work Lindsey It's so good to hear of progress!
We were getting somewhere, then DH went away for a week and now he is having no luck at all settling DD overnight again. She has been throwing full on screaming tantrums if it's him who goes to her
So we've decided as of last night, no more dummy. We've gone cold turkey too, so last night wasn't a lot of fun. It took an hour and a half to settle her to bed (which isn't out of the ordinary anyway), 45 minutes at her first wakeup, her midnight wakeup I fed her and she was back to sleep in 10 minutes, then the next wakeup was an hour of hysterical screaming until I gave in and fed her. But then I heard her wake up and self settle TWICE, and she slept in until 7am (probably cos she was worn out from all the tears overnight, poor darling, but still!). And even though we were up for about 2 hours overnight, it was only 3 wakeups, which is awesome. I've been holding her in my arms to settle her cos there is no way I'm going to let her cry in the cot but hopefully she stops the crying soon. And her naps over. Better run! ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Emmi_
Date Posted: 29 October 2010 at 10:56am
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Ive been lurking in here.. havnt got around to reading the book yet (trying to get through the BLW book first!) but its on my list of things to do!
T Rex, hows the dummy weaning going? We decided (ok, well I decided!) to go cold turkey on sunday, and so far so good, was really surprised at how easy it was to get rid of! I hold her, shhh, pat and stroke her hair when she cries and she settles pretty quickly, I tried to do the pin hole thing but we got to 7 pin holes (inc it by one a day) and she was still having it so I thought screw this! I did a sleep log last night (which was actually a good night for us as it turns out!) and it went like this: feed at 7.30 - 7.45 (wrapped and in her room) asleep by 8 Needed resettling at 8.50 (she often does this, any ideas why?? she doesnt get fed, the dummy used to be put back in, but now its a 1min shh pat thing and shes out to it again) woke at 10.56, fed her for 4 mins (I cut it early), was out to it again by 11.14 woke at 1.42, fed, off at 1.50 and was out to it woke at 4.45 and fed her in bed woke at 6 and fed her still in bed up for the day at 6.40 she used to do 7 hour sleeps in a row but that changed when i got mastitis and my supply dropped, when she latched on I could tell she wasnt very hungry other wise would have fed forlonger, I planned to alternate cutting a feed and then letting her fed for as long as she wants, but couldnt keep my eyes open at 5am! THe way she didnt complain much at the 11pm feed proved to me that she wasnt really hungry (I have tried to not feed her at all but she just cries and works herself up way too much) so will try it again later. Would love to get her to sleep in longer stretches, not end up in our bed (which has only started happening since I got rid of the dummy, as she would jsut go back to sleep with the dummy) and not have to feed every time she wakes. Would love for her to sleep until 8am like she did with the dummy but I dont think Im going ot get that one back! ------------- 
+1 May 09 Angel
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Posted By: tiptoes
Date Posted: 29 October 2010 at 1:20pm
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Since that last tooth popped through we've pretty much been down to one wake up which is pretty cool. I've still been bringing him into bed after that but mostly he settles down straight to sleep. The night before last he woke at 3am and I thought I'll give resettling in his cot a go and I was totally surprised but it worked and he slept in there till 7am!!! Last night I couldn't get to sleep till after midnight so when he woke at 1am I just bought him into bed in case he woke lots. Will try the resettle in bed thing again tonight.
We've also been trying one sleep. Some day it's worked really well but some days he wakes early (about 6.15am) and he's not lasting. I tried two naps the other day on one of those days but struggled to get him to sleep in the afternoon. We ended up going for a walk on a gravel track and he fell asleep in the stroller - first time in months! He's also fallen asleep in the car a couple of times when I haven't been home quick enough as I'm struggling to work out what I'm doing. I kept a log last week but forgot this week so have started again today. The length of sleeps have been quite variable, even when going down at the same time. I think he needs about 2.5-3 hrs but that's probably happening only 50% of the time at most. I think if I manage to fill him up with food and milk he sleeps longer, but if he falls asleep on the way home then he skips his bottle or sometimes when out he doesn't eat a lot. ------------- http://alterna-tickers.com">
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Posted By: T_Rex
Date Posted: 29 October 2010 at 3:53pm
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Sounds awesome Chelle. It's so hard trying to keep up when their needs change all the time isn't it?
Ditching the dummy is proving somewhat of a challenge. Nights are going ok - certainly she is waking less often, although it's taking much longer (and lots of tears) to get her back down. I'm remembering why I introduced a dummy at 6 months now - because I couldn't get her to sleep at all in the day. Today she's had a half hour sleep. She just doesn't seem able to wind down. I've spent nearly 4 hours trying to settle her . She just thrashes and screams in my arms for ages and ages. I'm not even expecting her to nod off in the cot or anything, i just want to rock her to sleep without the dummy. Right now I just want to curl up and cry as long and loud and hard as my baby
It's so frustrating, we are following all the *rules* and still no success ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: tiptoes
Date Posted: 29 October 2010 at 6:01pm
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Oh man that sounds hard T-Rex. Does she sleep in the car or stroller? This sleep business is not easy ------------- http://alterna-tickers.com">
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Posted By: Emmi_
Date Posted: 29 October 2010 at 6:06pm
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TRex, come down to Welly and I will give you a hand... A nice long car ride might do the trick? -------------
+1 May 09 Angel
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Posted By: myfullhouse
Date Posted: 29 October 2010 at 7:29pm
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Can I ask you ladies why you have decided to ditch the dummy? Is it because you think they are waking more because of the dummy? Or you feel you need/want/should? Just interested. I hate dummies and swore I wouldn't use one, and didn't with Jack. I think I introduced Ben's at about 3mths and said I would have it gone by 1yr, hahaha! Then I said it would be gone by 2yrs! And we have pretty much got rid of it, but mainly because Ben was ready to get rid of it or didn't need it as much ------------- Lindsey
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Posted By: Emmi_
Date Posted: 29 October 2010 at 7:32pm
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We got rid of it bc she was waking every 45 mins for it to be put back in again... no thanks! -------------
+1 May 09 Angel
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Posted By: E&L+1
Date Posted: 29 October 2010 at 9:07pm
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T Rex just a thought. I tried the crying in my arms thing and I discovered that E cries longer in my arms than if she is in the cot. Have you tried putting her in the cot while you are there with her? Since I did my version of verbal reassurance she goes down no problem for her day sleeps and we only have 1 or sometimes no wake ups at night. (Apart from the odd teething night that is)
I have posted in your other thread too :) if you want more detail on what I did and how it went let me know. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: myfullhouse
Date Posted: 29 October 2010 at 9:54pm
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Emmi, yes definately something you don't want!! I think we were quite lucky in that the dummy helped but Ben didn't depend on it ------------- Lindsey
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Posted By: T_Rex
Date Posted: 30 October 2010 at 11:54am
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We are ditching the dummy cos I think she's waking up in the night because of it, same as Lilla.
Esmesmum, we just settled her *mostly* in the cot for her nap and she did seem a bit better. I'd love to know what you did and how it went. How much hysterical screaming was there?
Emmi, I'd love to come visit you in Wellies, but car rides are hell. They were the reason we introduced the dummy in the first place (at nearly 6 months), cos I thought I was going to crash if I had to drive everywhere while my baby screamed hysterically in the back seat for the whole trip. I'm dreading the half hour commute on Monday without one, although she's been much better since we got the radian. At least DH and I share the commute so I can sit in the back with DD. One day I'll make it to Wellies, but it might not be soon! DH's family is there, and we haven't even braved taking her to visit them yet! They've come up here occasionally, but they don't seem to have any idea what kind of baby she is and how draining she is on us
Thanks for the support ladies, it's so nice to get a response other than "let her cry"! ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Emmi_
Date Posted: 30 October 2010 at 12:46pm
oohhh bummer! Maybe not then!! Lilla used to scream in the car for the dummy but since weve got rid of it she doesnt. If shes over tired she might cry (kinda scream) for 2 mins but thats it (thank goodness!!) I so hope things get better for you soon trex!! Your doing an awesome job, so keep it up yeah?  -------------
+1 May 09 Angel
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Posted By: E&L+1
Date Posted: 30 October 2010 at 1:26pm
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Ok this will be a bit of a novel but hopefully you will be able to take some of it to help you :)
First I introduced a nap routine and we focused on going down for a nap. Our routine is check/change nappy, sing a song, down to bedroom into sleeping bag, close curtains read 2-3 books then into bed with her bunny and saying nun-night. This takes about 10mins and lets her wind down Once she is in bed I left straight away (you could stay next to her cot if you don't want to leave I decided too as if I was in the room she stood up/crawled around more). If she was crying I would check in at 5, 10, 15, 15 if she was still crying I'd get her up and try again later. If she was just grizzling or doing random cries I would leave her. A check in was 30secs at the door saying nun-night. If she was standing/sitting I'd lay her back down but avoided picking her up. The longest she cried for in the first few days was 25 mins and some of that was intermittent. Hardest 25 minutes ever! A lot of it was a protest scream. After a few days she would go down with less than a 5 min grizzle. It was HARD leaving her but she slept much better after a week and it took the stress out of naptimes. After a month we were getting really good sleeps with little or no protest so I decided to bite the bullet and work on her night waking. I was lucky in that she has pretty much always settled to sleep at night well so that made it easier. We followed her bedtime routine and put her to bed. The plan was if she woke I would do the check ins at 5, 10, 15, 15... until she went to sleep. Again you could stay in the room with her if you wanted when she woke. If the first night was horrible we would try for 1 more night and then throw in the towel as I didn't want to deal with the crying. Cause although she would wake multiple times a feed always got her back to sleep quickly. First night she woke at 10.30, 11.30, 2.30, 3.30 and then was up for the day (was a pretty normal night). She was asleep within 15 minutes of each waking! I was happy and there wasn't too much crying invovled mainly grizzling. Second night she woke 1.30 and grizzled on and off for an hour (grizzle 1 min, nothing for 3 etc) and 4.30 and was asleep within 15 minutes Third night she slept 6.30-6.15 for the first time ever!!!! Fourth night woke, 1.30, 2.30, 4.30, 5.30 and up at 7 didn't need to check at all as it was all only a little grizzle for a few minutes. Fifth night 1.30, 4.00 with no checks Sixth night 3.30, 5.40, 6.30 up at 7 checked in twice and she was asleep within 10 minutes Seventh night she slept 6.30-6.15 She still isn't sleeping through consistently but our nights are much better that they were. I've gone from feeding at least 3 times to once or none. It was hard but I needed to do it. For nap times I figured she was crying anyway and my current strategy wasn't being too successful so trying something different made sense to me at the time. I am so glad we did it (and by we I mean me) She is happier while up as she isn't as tired. Something that has happened that was unexpected is she is more attached to her bunny than before. I know this isn't a particularly 'gentle' method but they weren't working for us. It is gentler than the traditional CC/CIO as you can stay with baby if you choose. I didn't as this made DD more upset than if I just checked in. Admittedly after I checked in she would cry harder for a minute then settle. Hope that helps and T-Rex you have one lucky little girl to have a mum like you ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: 1st_Time_Preggies
Date Posted: 31 October 2010 at 7:42am
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Hi there, I have been lurking in this thread, looking for ideas to cut the night feeds. My DS wakes once or twice for a feed (is 9 months) and I want to try EVERYTHING before I use CIO (which my husband thinks we are going to have to resort to!)
Anyway, the reason I am posting actually, is I was wondering T-Rex, if you have tried turning the car seat around (so forward facing)? I know it is not as "safe" as such, but my friends daughter who SCREAMED the minute she was put into her car seat and the entire time she was in the car, was immediately a different baby once she was facing forward. Just an idea
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Posted By: T_Rex
Date Posted: 31 October 2010 at 8:45am
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Thanks 1st time preggies, but I'd rather DD was screaming than FF at 10 months. I'll give her back the dummy in the car if I really have to, but going to try a few other things first. I think we'll get there and maybe then I'll be game to head to wellies
Thanks Esmesmum. Was good to read your ideas, and so glad things have improved. I showed your post to DH, and we aren't game to try it just yet, but it is a gentler method of CC if we stay with her. I gave her 6 night feeds last night. Sigh. I think the winner will be to night wean her, but I'm not keen until she's at least 1. So I was wondering if you all just went cold turkey, or whether any of you have had success cutting the night feeds shorter by 1 minute each week? I'm not sure if that will just lead to weeks of frustration on both our parts, with still a battle to wean altogether at the end? It just seems so harsh to go from 6 night feeds to none, cos I'm usually starving by breakfast which means she is drinking plenty. She no longer settles for DH, so I can't work out how to make it make sense for her if she only gets fed some wakings, hence the idea of moving to shorter feeds until I can wean her off 6 x 2-minute feeds instead of 6 x 20 minute feeds. Thoughts please? ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Emmi_
Date Posted: 31 October 2010 at 9:16am
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Whats her normal number of night feeds? Last night I cut down Lillas feeds (since she was feeding about 6 times a night and I know she wasnt very hungry (and knew she could do 7 hours straight)) I decided after 5 hours from her last feed then I could feed her again (I didnt want to go too long if she couldnt handle it, so thought I could increase it depending on how she went). She still woke a few times but settled relatively easy (after an hour screaming 2 hours after shed gone down I hate nights like that!) So I know you dont want to tease her with sometimes feeding her but maybe you could feed her every other time she wakes then every 3rd time? I dont know, just an idea... -------------
+1 May 09 Angel
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Posted By: myfullhouse
Date Posted: 31 October 2010 at 9:45pm
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Cutting down the length of feeds for Ben won't work as he gets really upset if he doesn't get what he wants which is boob and he just screams if I 'cut him off' before he is ready.
When I start cutting the night feeds I am going to do it gradually, probably something like no bf if he wakes before 9.30pm, then extend it out by a few hours. I feel a little bit bad about the night feeds though as I know they are just a comfort due to teething pain. Last night at about 2am he just wouldn't stop bfing and go to sleep, a moment of clarity struck and I put bonjela on him, he had really swollen gums poor boy, and was asleep without bfing in minutes! So night weaning is going it be a bit scary and hard I think ------------- Lindsey
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Posted By: E&L+1
Date Posted: 01 November 2010 at 2:04pm
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No worries T Rex I figure the more tools you have in your basket the better chance you have to solve the problem you don't have to use them all but it's nice to know that they are there.
Esme was about 11 months when I started and I was still doubting doing it then. For me it was the only way night weaning was going to happen as DP ALWAYS gives up after about 1 minute of trying to settle her and DD won't settle in my arms if I'm not feeding her or in her cot if I stay in the room. Co sleeping caused her to wake more frequently too. Cutting the length doesn't work for her as she gets more upset if I stop her before she is ready ( I tried the removal thing that Elizabeth Pantely suggests and although successful to start with she quickly cottoned on and would get really upset with it). So we went cold turkey from 3-6 feeds to nothing. My rule now is I won't feed her before 4am. The other thing that I do is if I am going to feed her I get up pretty much straight away if she's not being fed I wait 5 mins then go and check in on her. She usually goes to sleep straight after a check in now. I find she is now eating well during the day before she'd eat hardly anything and have short BF. Now she actually eats something for breakfast and has proper feeds during the day. I also have to mention that it's not you that is causing the sleep thing. I'm the eldest of 5 and all bar one of us didn't sleep through consistently until around 1. Mum always thought it was her until she had the twins and one slept and the other was just like the rest of us ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: 1st_Time_Preggies
Date Posted: 16 November 2010 at 7:55am
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I need to join the crapper sleepers club :-( My DS is 9 months and USED to only wake once for a feed which I could handle (although I used to dream of him sleeping through!). Lately it is anywhere between two and FIVE times a night and it is getting me down Most of the time the only thing that settles him is a quick bf but I can't keep doing that. I fear the only way to get him to stop is to let him CIO and I don't want to
Last night our night went like this: 7pm - bed 7.30pm - wouldn't settle so bf 8pm - awake again, bf 10pm - awake, bf 12 midnight - awake, bf 2am - awake, bf 4am - awake, rocked 4.30am - awake, bf He is getting his top four teeth so I know he is in pain, but at the moment I can't see which wake ups are caused by what. Sorry to babble, just had to tell someone
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Posted By: tiptoes
Date Posted: 16 November 2010 at 3:43pm
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Those top teeth suck Are you giving pamol? I've heard baby nurofen lasts 8 hours but never got around to getting it. So if say at the beginning of the night like above he's woken a couple of times quickly, might be worth giving it then and then noting down if there's a difference in the feeding pattern in comparison to nights you don't? I find with pamol we'd usually get a decent stretch afterwards so must have been pain keeping him awake. Even if I give milk at the same time, he'd sleep for longer in between. ------------- http://alterna-tickers.com">
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