Do some Mums really do this?!
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Category: Have A Baby?
Forum Name: First baby? Second or more?
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Topic: Do some Mums really do this?!
Posted By: Emmecat
Subject: Do some Mums really do this?!
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 6:48pm
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Our babies are about the same age, give or take a few weeks. We were chatting about what they were up to (as you do) and I commented that Clodagh had never been a great sleeper and was 'still' feeding twice a night. She literally nearly fell off her chair and replied 'really? My baby has been sleeping through the night for 12/13 hours since 4 months old! She carried on: 'yes I decided one night I wasn't going to get up to baby anymore. So I didn't. That first night he cried for an hour and forty five minutes and I never once went to see him.The second night he screamed for an hour. By the end of the week he was 'only' crying for ten minutes before giving up and now he sleeps through'. Um ok. She wasn't bothered at all by any of this and I just felt desperately sorry for her wee bubba. 4 months old being left to cry/scream that long? I know I'm a bit of a sook but wow that took my breath away TBH. Do some Mums really do that? Not being funny, I'd just like to know!! -------------   http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> 
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Replies:
Posted By: Kazzle
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 6:59pm
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thats how i got Cory to sleep through the night...although i have to admit that i didnt leave him for more than 10mins to cry.
And after a couple of nights he just didnt wake. I only went in if his crying sounded like he was getting distressed and then he got a quick "its okay" and a cuddle and back down. I think 1hr 45mins is way too long, but then im a sook and i cant handle my babies crying. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: Emmecat
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 7:01pm
Yeah I know some people are in the 'cry it out camp' (which I'm not) but it was the length of time and AGE of the baby concerned which worried me.  She didn't seem at all bothered and was also suprised I was 'still' BF. ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: fire_engine
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 7:01pm
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Yup. I haven't, cos I can't stand a crying baby in the middle of the night, but it is meant to be quite effective. I wouldn't do it at 4 months though - that seems too early, but I know some of the "baby gurus" recommend it about then, if not earlier. ------------- Mum to two wee boys |
Posted By: fire_engine
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 7:02pm
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And ditto, I couldn't and wouldn't let them cry that long. I do it with Dan now sometimes if I know he's tired and needs to sleep but it never lasts more than 10 minutes and is usually about 2 (but feels like 20!) ------------- Mum to two wee boys |
Posted By: WRXnKids
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 7:08pm
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It would depend on the type of crying for me if its just the wimpery attention seeking cry then id just leave them but if its distressed i need something crying then i wouldnt be able to certainly not that long. Dunno if i would have done it at that age tho but that might all change when #2 arrives cos i have a feeling things will be quite different with what i will try and put up with this time round -------------   
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Posted By: Emmecat
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 7:12pm
Yes, I leave Clodagh if it's whinging grizzling but this woman was saying SCREAMING. Clody gets hysterical v quickly and I never ever leave her more than 10 minutes and that's at 9 months!  Perhaps more fool me but there's a difference aye between crying grizzling and full blown distress. Oh and I'm sure I'll be 'harder' when and if # 2 comes along but I'm buggered if I'll ever leave any baby that long on their own regardless of how tired I am ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Shezamumof3
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 7:13pm
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1 hour and 40 mins is WAY to long to let a baby cry without going in at all IMO!
But, I AM in the controlled crying "camp", but I dont let her cry for longer than 5 mins at a time, I go in and shh her and stroke her head or hold her hand until she is calm again. Ive been doing this since she was very little, and now she is a good little self settler. Everyone has different views on the subject and parents differently. ETA- I never leave her screaming, if she is screaming then something is wrong, like wind/hunger etc ------------- |
Posted By: HoneybunsMa
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 7:22pm
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Wow thats a very long time ino. I have heard of an older child 18mths old being left to just cry but not a baby like that. DD woke the other night and cried and cried and I know it was only about 3mins but her dad couldn't stand it and got up to her. She's a very strong willed little girl and even mum commented the next morning how she could hear her and could hear it wasn't distressed/upset/hurt etc. It was a I want this and your not letting me have it... She wanted to play at 4am. She learnt that I wasn't having any of it and 4am is not playtime. 1hr40min is excessive! Crying screaming my gosh! Ok gotta go DD just smacked her head on her highchair. I shouldn't laugh should I? ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker"> 
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Posted By: Emmecat
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 7:23pm
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I think what concerned me is that this Mum literally LEFT her wee baby to scream until he stopped. I think that's pretty cruel. I am about to go into MY screaming baby- for the third time in less than half hour- to try help her settle. But no way could I leave her like this. ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Blankney94
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 7:24pm
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I think Brooke was pretty much sleeping through by about 4-5 months reliably, but then after that she went through various stages of teething and waking. I 'instinctively' knew when wee girl didn't need middle of the night feeding anymore but didn't rush the whole thing (didn't want to deny her if she was genuinely hungry). Kinda can tell the difference between a hungry cry and a teething/pain type cry, and also I didn't let her go into the out of control screaming stage, though would let her do the 'settling' cry. I can't handle her being left to cry for more than 5-10 mins. Just do what makes you and your baby comfortable. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: Gardengirl
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 7:34pm
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Cry it out breaks my heart tbh. I want my little boy to not cry in the night because he doesn't need to, not because he has been taught that there is no point. Controlled crying I can get my head around, but not so much with rigid times, more with the type of cry dictating when we'd go back in.
I recently had a good friend raise her eyebrows at me because not only do I get up to my 6 monther in the night, but I bring him into our bed and breastfeed. She stopped getting up to her baby after 'deciding' not to at 6 weeks. Which is great for her I guess... |
Posted By: emz
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 8:26pm
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Yep - we did it with Jack but it was grizzling, not screaming.
For Ava, I've had to, from an early age. I was getting 2 hours sleep a day and DH was away so I had to wheel her to the other end of the house and let her scream for a couple of hours while I slept. I wouldn't normally let her cry for that long, but when she was screaming for 12-18 hours a day there wasn't much else I could do. |
Posted By: BeLoved
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 8:27pm
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I am not a fan of CIO but have done some CC to a degree but always depending on the type of crying and never longer than 5 minutes if that...1 minute always seems like 5 when your baby is crying.
One thing I think that is important to remember is that just because a baby sleeps through early (for us it was 8 weeks) does not mean that they have been left to cry, in fact on our case it was quite the opposite I was up every 1/2 hour checking on her to make sure she was okay. The other thing is that for some, their only parenting influences are those that take the "tough love" approach, which even though we may not agree with it, it is what they have gone with, I am very mindful of never "tut tutting" others parenting ways, it is such a hard job to do and I think these days there are so many "professionals" out there telling us how we should do it, that the guilt so many mum's feel is unnecessary. Plus if I don't pass judgement on them it makes it so much easier to tell them to "be quiet" if they start doing it to me! 
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Posted By: arohanui
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 8:30pm
 I can't do CIO or CC crying at all. Came across an interesting post through an attachment parenting group
(Warning: Controversial!) http://womanuncensored.blogspot.com/2009/12/just-let-her-cry.html - Just let her cry ------------- Mama to DS1 (5 years), DS2 (3 years) and... http://alterna-tickers.com" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: fattartsrock
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 8:39pm
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I think its disgusting. A whimper or sob maybe, but screaming for all that time. Bloody awful, and YES judgemental, but how on earth can you do that to your baby!!!! ------------- The Honest Un PC Parent of 2, usually stuck in the naughty corner! :P |
Posted By: Mamma2N
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 8:55pm
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arohanui, I've read that blog post before, it is such a well-written piece! And certainly puts into perspective what it IS LIKE for a little baby.
fattartsrock, I completely agree, yes it's judgemental but it is disgusting to leave a baby to cry! What I'm surprised the most with is that mothers who have told me that they have let their babies CIO at a young age (actually at any age) always back it up with - ''it was quite hard for me'' without any regard for their how hard it is on their baby.
Obviously I am not in the CIO camp, nor the CC camp - however that doesn't mean I haven't had to put DD into her cot, leaving her screaming for 5 mins while I compose myself. Like the advert currently playing on TV I have done this because I've been ready to explode I am human afterall. But I wouldn't use this as part of 'sleep training' - there are gentle methods to help/teach a baby to sleep through.
Oh and to top that - I heard of a mother who let her 3 day old baby CIO as part of her 4 hourly breastfeeding routine, because she was not going to create a dependent baby  Even more disturbing is she is a medical professional
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Posted By: _Deb_
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 9:00pm
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I think that's cruel and horrible. I would never expect or force a baby of that age to sleep through the night. Many babies that age still wake because they're hungry! I'm a softy and can never leave my babies to cry. It just breaks my heart and i can't (and don't want to) do it.
I don't agree with CIO at all but can see why CC can be beneficial. I'm lucky as Isabella sleeps 8-9hrs, then another 2-3. All i do is feed/rock her to sleep and put her to bed. I know things might not stay like that though. Her days sleeps aren't so great and i usually just let her sleep on me. But she has reflux. ------------- 
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Posted By: Delli
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 9:07pm
Golly gosh! (For want of a better expression  perhaps FFS would have been better). You would hope that a medical professional would have done her research. (Well, I hope that everybody regardless of profession does some research - but that's beside the point).------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Mamma2N wrote:Posted By: Katep
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 9:11pm
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I think it is simply cruel. I had maybe an average of 3-4 hours sleep per 24 hour period for the 1-2 months, and no matter how tired I was I would never do that!
------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
Mum to the Gorgeous Leah! 7 months |
Posted By: AandCsmum
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 9:15pm
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Hell, Emmecat, what would she thought of us with our boy still waking every 2 hours up til not long ago...
There is crying that will go back to sleep & crying that won't...4 months old is way to young to let a baby cry for that long! I did let Alia cry one night I was at a wits end, it was in the evening, DH was out & I took my glass of wine & sat in the car listening to the radio. I was only out there 15 mins but enough for me to calm down & for her to go to sleep. I would have never done it if I had just decided enough was enough. ------------- Kel http://lilypie.com"> 
A = 01.02.04 & C = 16.01.09 & G = 30.03.12 |
Posted By: caitlynsmygirl
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 9:56pm
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I used CIO with C , but never for that long .
Poor baby , he (she ?) should feel secure and trust that the person who is his main caregiver will come to him when he communicates in the only way he knows how . ------------- 
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Posted By: Henna79
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 10:00pm
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What an awfully long time!! I can't stand to let Alex cry now and so I don't let him never have and never will. I get frowned upon a lot as he is not sleeping through and isn't a very good sleep full stop but I cannot use CC or CIO as it's just not in me.
I too have read the blog and absolutely love it! So well written. |
Posted By: Flutterby
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 10:04pm
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I think that is too long as well. I have left DS to cry but only if he is grizzling. I always go into him if he is getting hysterical. And I know when he needs a drink during the night.
Someone once brought up the point that adults often need a drink or a midnight snack during the night so why should we expect a young baby to not need a feed during the night, especially when they are busy doing so much growing. ------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: peachy
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 10:21pm
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Wow, what an awesome read, thanks for that Liz!
How can someone possiby leave their baby for that long, that would just rip my heart right out! I have never used CIO or CC with DD. It would break my heart to hear her cry in bed  ...but I am a big softy ------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: minik8e
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 10:25pm
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The girls have slept through the night since 6 weeks - because THEY wanted to. We would feed them, and do the bedtime routine, and when THEY decided it was feed time, we fed them (which was usually the next morning). Sometimes they are left to cry...with two of them and one of me, I'm not superhuman. And sometimes I'm in the shower and can't hear them (my showers are 5 mins long...10 mins tops if I'm lucky). In saying that, it's not usually that long...long enough to get #1 settled, then pick up and settle #2. I can "switch off" when they are screaming (I have to, or I would be insane by now) but sure as heck don't like it, and do what I can to stop it!!!
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Posted By: mummyofprinces
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 10:27pm
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Mortified.. way to teach your kid to not trust you!
I cant do CIO and have used CC from time to time but only with whingy crying NEVER screaming and its more about time out for me (sometimes you just need to shut the door and breath!). To leave a small helpless baby scream for that long is horrible... I have to wonder if these people would leave a dog to cry outside for as long or their partner for that matter! Id rather bf my baby! -------------   
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Posted By: mamanee
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 11:08pm
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Love that link Liz!
I can't do CIO or CC, and we only get 2-3 hours straight sleep a night but I just can't bring myself to let my lovely cuddly little baby cry! Grizzling I can handle for a few minutes if I'm in the toilet or really busy for a minute or two sorting Sam out, but crying or screaming NEVER. I'm in there as soon as humanly possible. Didn't let Sam cry either. I just don't have it in me and never will. That really shocks me though! I still go into Sam if he wakes up crying and I never leave him in his room crying! |
Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 11:12pm
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At 4 months old the baby would have been crying for a reason and to me ignoring that is the terrible thing. That is the only way they have of communicating at that age, how terrible to not be heard!
One thing i have found with parenting "stories" though is that you can pretty much guarantee a bit of embellishment, not intentional usually. Sleep deprivation, shock, reality, mummy brain - it all contributes and makes the re telling a bit more horrible than it really was! ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker"> 
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Posted By: fattartsrock
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 9:25am
Now THAT is also bloody terrible! I really really dislike "clock" feeding. For goodness sake, if YOU are hungry or even just thirsty you don't look a the clock and go oh I had a drink 2 hours ago, I can't need one yet, I must be being spoilt. I don't care if your baby is bottle fed or breastfed, feed them when they are thirsty/hungry!!!!!!! Even medical professionals (the ones I work with at any rate) say the same thing. That makes my blood boil. Dependant baby. Pfffffffftttt. Disgusting. ------------- The Honest Un PC Parent of 2, usually stuck in the naughty corner! :P |
Posted By: xLUCKYx
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 10:00am
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I saw that blog too 'let her cry' and also found some of the comments very interesting.
Personally I don't let either of my kids CC or CIO. I am a big softy but I pride myself on that and I enjoy being there to give my kids cuddles or comfort them if they need it because they are only young once. Why do we want to skip all of these awesome bonding moments?? Both of my kids have slept through from a very young age (by 6 weeks from memory). I fed them on demand and they naturally grew big enough for their wee bodies to make it through the night without another feed. I have had intermittent problems with them waking in the night and I always go and see what the matter is. Sometimes I only need to pull the covers up again, or give a quick cuddle. Sometimes I have had to walk baby around the house if they were teething or sick - I don't want to be all alone when I am sick or uncomfortable so I don't feel thet they should either. That is just me though and I do respect that others have different approaches. Although 4 months (and younger) that is just mean I have to say. |
Posted By: WRXnKids
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 10:13am
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Funny you say that about clock feeding because i demand fed josh and he wanted fed every 3 hours without fail for a long time would still need bottles in the night till quite old and because of it was a rather large chubby baby and every time i took him to plunket they told me to stop giving in and feeding him so much and this was from the 6wk visit.
When your a first time mum that isnt very confident i can imagine you would take their advice as gospel because you do feel like they should know best. I had been told by my mum to ignore any plunket advice i didnt like because she had plenty of run ins with plunket when she had me and my sisters otherwise i probably would have felt like a bad mum and followed their advice. My point is some people with their first child are going to be easily swayed by advice from people they believe to be professionals so its not always their fault they use practices that not everyone agree's with. There is soo much information out there on parenting and it all contridicts each other i dont think we need to judge people too harshly especially if it worked for them because they probably didnt know of other options or need to seek them out. -------------
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Posted By: bun_in_the_oven
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 10:43am
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WOw - i am in shock
there is Crying it out and bloody neglect.. babies cry for a reason.. its their way of communicating a need for something... a hug.. a boob... a burb.... Sheesh im trying really hard not to have my 'judgmental hat' on with this but what the hell was she thinking.. sounds very selfish to me Maybe she just exagerated the story a bit.. well hopefully anyway.. Poor baby.. can only imagine what other warped theories she may think of in the future.. hmmm |
Posted By: Mamma2N
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 11:00am
Yep, unfortunetly that seems to be the case - some medical professionals dole out the advice to leave babies to CIO. Isn't just Plunket, actually some advocate more gentle methods. Then we have the different baby-experts who all take different approaches to sleep-training babies. I tried CC for 1week with DD and I felt miserable and when I actually thought about it, I figured DD wasn't feeling much better either: It didn't work and I then had to work my darndest to gain back her trust. It felt wrong while I did it so I won't try again. Re clock-feeding, WRXandjosh, by the sounds of things you didn't deny feeding him until you were ready, (or the clock) the difference being that you followed your DS' lead. And you obviously trusted your instinct that told you to ignore advice to stop feeding him 
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Posted By: Emmecat
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 11:59am
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Ok, so I'm not just a big softy then? I know I'm a little more lefty than some- and that's ok, like I said it takes all sorts but yeah I was speechless when I spoke to this Mum. Brilliant blog btw... totally agree. Pantely has some great alternatives to no cry sleep solutions and Dr Sears is awesome!! His website http://www.askdrsears.com - www.askdrsears.com is one i use alot (is attachment parenting based though). Thanks everyone for allowing me to vent a bit and reinforcing my beliefs. It helps sometimes to bounce ideas off each other and check my parenting barometer lol ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Emmecat
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 12:03pm
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AND now I just have to boast a *little* Clodagh May slept from 7.30pm- 1230am on her own in her cot then BF then went through to 5am...all on her own
------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: HoneybunsMa
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 12:17pm
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Yay for Clodagh sleeping in her own bed! I read your other thread. I just had to let DD cry to sleep for her nap all up about 5mins I wasn't really paying attention though Like I said in my other post however at that age its too young and 1hr is FAR too long ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker">
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better that then clock watch. I understand having to let them cry to sleep occasionally I do with DD because she is so bloody nosey always has been since a newborn where she wouldn't sleep because too much is going on so I let her cry and settle herself. If I even try to cuddle to sleep, feed whatever she just stays awake and thinks its play time.Posted By: fire_engine
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 12:29pm
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Was thinking about this quite a bit last night (since I feel like I'm the only bad CCer on here).
WRX - I totally agree with your post. I think there are some really strong messages out there about what you "should" do as a parent and it's only through my time on here and on TNN that I've learned about other ways of doing things. As an example, I remember seeing some of DH's workmates when Dan was 9 weeks old and having sleep issues (which we later discovered were medically related) and we had 2 different sets of parents tell us how wonderful guru X was and how they did CIO at 6 weeks ( ) and their child slept beautifully ever since. DH thought that sounded great (not the CIO but the sleeping) but I thought it sounded like torture and we didn't do it. Add that to the message from MIL that "you're creating a rod for your own back" and from my sisters "oh, they just have to learn" and from the Starship nurses after Dan's heart surgery (this is the experience that makes me most upset with myself) that "he needed to learn to sleep by himself" (at 11 weeks) ..... When you're a new mum who doesn't necessarily know a lot (book smarts are one thing, parenting smarts have to be learned), it's really easy to be swayed in particular directions.------------- Mum to two wee boys |
Posted By: Mucky_Tiger
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 12:46pm
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i dont have kids but leaving a 4 month old for 1 hr 45min??? WTF hes only little.
what about the fact that he could be drying cos hes hungry/sore or infact just not tired
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Posted By: shadowfeet
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 12:52pm
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That's really disgusting I leave DD (11 weeks) to self-settle. Only with grizzling or when I know shes just overtired. Screaming definitely not. If she's screaming I go in straight away. Sometimes we had to let her cry for a few minutes while making her bottle, and that was hard enough. She's slept through the night for a few weeks now, from between 9 and 11pm til anywhere from 6.30-10.30am. I think it's the difference between FF and BF babies though. She's refluxy and her day sleeps are not great so I think she's really tired by night. ------------- 
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Posted By: lilfatty
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 12:52pm
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I've never let either of my children cry, not matter how little sleep ive had
I chose to be a Mummy, that didnt ask to be put on this earth, so its my job to ensure that when they "need me" im there. ------------- Mummy to Issy (3) and Elias (18 months) I did it .. 41 kgs gone! From flab to fab in under a year  http://www.femininefitness.co.nz/category/blog - LFs weight blog
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Posted By: Nutella
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 1:08pm
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I don't really have an opinion so much as a question...if breastfeeding then why would you want baby to sleep through the night as won't your breasts be exploding in the morning..mine are after 3-4 hours...
------------- 
 Oct 11
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Posted By: shadowfeet
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 1:12pm
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Just read the linked blog. It's amazingly written. I cried, and I don't often cry at things I read -------------
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Posted By: ElfsMum
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 1:25pm
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i agree with everyone...its far too long.. and not screaming.. I am wanting Liam to learn to self settle but i refuse to let him scream.. grizzling i can do for a few mins..but never at night and not when he needs something.. with Ethan i couldn't stand even a second of his crying:( with having two it's a little different but I can't even let Ethan cry ...! ------------- Mum to two amazing boys! |
Posted By: tishy
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 1:46pm
Well put! 
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Posted By: SquishysMum
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 1:59pm
You're not, we have done CC, but only when absolutely necessary (for MY sanity!) I would go in at 5, 7, 9, 11 mins etc, or sooner if the crying hit the threshold of actually not happy (not just grizzling/overtired anymore!). I also have started shutting her bedroom door so I don't hear her grizzling in the night - I was getting up, and waking her up thinking she was awake (similar to when she was a newborn and room-sharing). She was unhappy, and I was shattered, so now she only wakes me when she's ACTUALLY awake and needs me! That said, we have done CC only about 4 times ever, after she was 7 months, never consecutive nights (weeks apart actually!), and I would NEVER leave her screaming for that long! There was a definite threshold for crying that I could handle, and I knew she didn't actually need me, she just needed some time to herself. My mother is a big CIO advocate, to the point that I didn't feel comfortable leaving DD with them in case they left her to cry. They live in another town, but still, we went there when she was 4 months old, I was outside, and couldn't hear her, no one came and got me, by the time I went inside again she was so hysterical she was choking on her tears! I was fuming. I, as an adult, am finding that perhaps being left to scream has actually affected how I deal with problems and relationships in my life, and I'm determined that DD will be a more secure person than I am. |
Posted By: MrsEmma
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 2:03pm
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Gosh, thank you so much to the person that posted that article - I've just read it and it definitely brought a tear to my eye.
I just can't leave Liam to cry for longer than a minute or two, it's not in me. I do understand though that people try things that they are told is 'best' - I've been given much advice about this subject and with him being my first it's hard to know what's 'correct'. Going with my maternal instinct has been the been the best advice I've gotten so far
Thanks again, can't wait until Liam wakes up so I can give him a huge cuddle. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: tishy
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 2:18pm
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We've done both CIO and CC at different times. 'Patting and Sshhhing' was always the first option with CIO the last resort and never as long as the original topic.
I commend anyone that can sanely deal with an unsettled baby after minimal number of hours sleep and a full on day. However, for me personally, there are times that I need to shut the door, make a cup of tea and drink it slowly and calmly before I have the patience to go back in and deal with the crying baby/toddler(s). |
Posted By: mumtooboys
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 2:18pm
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We did CC with DS1, nearly ripped my heart out and had I listened to THAT instead of everyone else telling me it was for his own good well..........with DS2 I listened, even when it was incredibly hard to do so. Not even in our most sleep deprived state did we ever contemplate leaving him to CIO or to do CC. Yes like others we have left him to cry if the choice was between that and us possibly losing our rag with him but it has been a rare occurrence that.
In a similar vein, I know of parents who put locks on the OUTSIDE of their kids bedroom doors so they can't come out of their rooms at bedtime and they don't have to spend their time taking them back to bed.  Now I am going to assume that they unlock the doors once the kids are asleep......well I hope they do because god forbid there is a fire or something. What is that 'teaching' them anyway?
Crying is your baby's only form of communication, not responding to it just because it is inconvenient for YOU is a bit hard for me to swallow....took me a long time to reconcile what I once believed with where I am now and I have to say where I am now has actually made for a happier, calmer, more relaxed household. Even when we don't get much sleep.  ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: Peanut
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 2:29pm
Our home is an older home with really high door handles that DS1 can't reach. We shut the door at bed time - he settles and sleeps better without hearing DS2 cry. How is this different? |
Posted By: tishy
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 2:36pm
I agree with this. Our DDs can't open their bedroom door yet either. If there was a fire we'd have to get them out anyway. |
Posted By: WRXnKids
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 2:37pm
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With Josh if he was grizzling i was happy to leave him to it sometimes i would just stay in the room some times i would leave but i knew he was fed and clean and tired and i was and am comfortable with that approach to self settling and i dont really think that can be started too early and is in a totally different league to leaving a baby to scream. I think there is a huge difference between grizzling crys and upset i need something or someone crys. My point is i was happy doing that and it wasnt pushed on me to take that approach. There were times Josh was screaming his nut off and i had to put him somewhere safe and walk away but i think he might have been older and i wouldnt leave him for an hour just long enough to clear my own head and calm myself down.
As for shutting/locking a child in their room (note child not baby) to keep them as Mumtooboys said that is totally different and i do do that. Josh will not settle for an afternoon nap somedays although he needs the sleep and i have no issue shutting the door and letting him scream then play then climb into his bed and go to sleep. I can check on him through the window and do if i cant hear him and as soon as he is asleep i open the door again. Before i put him in his room he has a clean bum and has had his lunch and drink so i know there isnt anything he needs he just doesnt want to be there. I dont do it at night because his room is too dark and i havent taken all the toys and extra stuff out like some mothers do and i dont want him to hurt himself trying to climb in or out of bed otherwise i probably would do it to get him to sleep at night because it works so well during the day. Am considering using a kiddie gate at his door so i can try it at night time as well. -------------
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Posted By: fire_engine
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 2:47pm
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This is a remarkably civilised thread - often threads around CC/CIO can go feral!
I also think there's a difference between doing something that's convenient for you as a parent (e.g. sleeping through the night at 6 weeks/4 months) and doing something that's necessary (surviving a feral child and getting some time out to cool yourself down and restock). ------------- Mum to two wee boys |
Posted By: Shezamumof3
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 2:49pm
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When Caden was in his big boy bed briefly we had a baby gate up so he couldnt get out, so thats kind of like a lock on the door, and like Tishy said, if there heaven forbid was a fire then we would go and get him quick smart anyways!!!
And I agree with what WRX said **WRXandJosh wrote: My point is some people with their first child are going to be easily swayed by advice from people they believe to be professionals so its not always their fault they use practices that not everyone agree's with. There is soo much information out there on parenting and it all contridicts each other i dont think we need to judge people too harshly especially if it worked for them because they probably didnt know of other options or need to seek them out. ** ------------- |
Posted By: fire_engine
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 2:52pm
This is why I'm too chicken to move Dan out of the cot! But I'll take the same approach. ------------- Mum to two wee boys |
Posted By: WRXnKids
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 2:57pm
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Haha at 15mths i had no choice but to take side off the cot josh kept climbing out although just patting him on the bum until he went to sleep worked for awhile man do you get a sore arm doing that on a regular basis. -------------
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Posted By: HoneybunsMa
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 3:03pm
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So for those who CIO CC what would you do if your baby (7mth old) woke up in the middle of the night and decided they wanted to play? DD is VERY strong willed figured out how to fake cry at a young age and now sits in her cot and has tantrums thrashing her fists round. I can tell the difference between her cries obviously and this was not a hurt/uncomfortable/hungry cry it was I want this and your not letting me have it. She's also going through seperation anxiety can't even go to the toilet on my own even though other people are in the room I was just going to let her tantrum it out even at 4am. DP got upset and picked her up and even then she wouldn't calm down throwing her head back pushing away and she normally calms very quickly. I ended up out the front with her to calm her down took her away from the situation. ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker">
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Posted By: mumtooboys
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 3:06pm
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IMO there is a major difference between shutting a door that a child can't open because they can't reach the handle and LOCKING them in their room cause you are too lazy to tend to them.
We shut doors; DS1 can reach, DS2 used to sleep with the door closed when he was in his cot but now he's not and we pull it to when we go to bed. If they were just shutting doors I got NO problem with that, it's the LOCKING them in that I take issue with. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: WRXnKids
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 3:15pm
How is that being to lazy to tend to them? We tried taking josh back to his bed over and over and he WONT stay there he gets worked up and over excited and for him it simply does NOT work. Me shutting a door he cant reach IS the same thing as locking him in his room and i in no way do this because i am lazy or a poor parent. The only other method of getting him to sleep that works is driving and petrol costs way to much to drive for an hour every afternoon and every evening trying to get him to sleep. -------------
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Posted By: WRXnKids
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 3:21pm
I know there were a couple of nights josh woke at some ungodly hour and wouldnt go back to sleep working himself up. I ended up in the lounge in the dark just jiggling him until he went back to sleep after checking he wasnt hungry, wet, dirty and probably gave a dose of pamol in case it was teeth/growth spurt etc but he wasnt doing it every night so i dont really have any specific advice -------------
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Posted By: Shezamumof3
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 4:03pm
We are not lazy, and Im a bit offended by your comment to be honest! ETA- Also having the gate up gave me piece of mind knowing he couldnt get out into the rest of the house while we were sleeping. ------------- |
Posted By: caitlynsmygirl
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 4:19pm
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Yeah , I have to say I had a similar thing with Caitlyn
I don't mind if Ty cries , but I don't like him crying for long , a grizzle is enough, I wont pretend im going to be able to prevent him crying everytime tho , if im on the toilet for example and he starts crying , well , he can wait til im finished C is nearly 8 and quite frankly after years of having her whinge and cry , I do the usual hug comfort stuff but secretly im rolling my eyes . -------------
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Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 4:23pm
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kelly there are times - like the toilet - where the whole world can go to hell as far as i'm concerned. i aint rushing out with panties down around my ankles for anything or anyone! ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker">
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Posted By: Shezamumof3
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 4:31pm
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lol Deb! ------------- |
Posted By: tishy
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 4:36pm
I still fail to see the difference. In both instances kids are confined to their rooms. My DD's are happy for the door to be closed. When the the time comes that they can open the door I would seriously think about what to do while the novelty wears off. Not because I'm lazy but because we have a system that currently works for us. |
Posted By: Bombshell
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 4:38pm
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I refuse to read all of this....but...
CIO works for some and not for others...we were lucky to have the child who I so often refer to as my "12 hour sleeper" from very early (not the first 6 weeks of course tho!!!) - we used a system similar to CIO and it worked. Def did not leave her as long as the lady mentioned tho!!! I did know the difference between her cries - and that is imprtant with that sort of system - pain vs crying for attention! People shouldnt dismiss CIO off hand...and dont knock anyone for using it...but then having said that CIO for 10-30 mins is fine - 1 hour IMO is toolong...pick them up cuddles relax and put them down again....or hand them off if need be! and for peace of mind we had angel care so knew if she was crying she was ok ..... |
Posted By: BaAsKa
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 4:50pm
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Wev done the CIO with all of our kids reasonably early on and it worked well for us! slept through from then on....we DID NOT leave them for that long though....
Im with Sheena too - iv used gates for both my boys when they were younger then shut the door when they got a bit older..il be doing the same with Karma too....i dont shut it then never go back...i of course sneekily check often until asleep.. I mustv been an horific mother because i let my child cry behind his closed gate/door when we were teaching the whole "stay in your big boy bed"
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Posted By: Peanut
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 4:51pm
Thanks Tishy. I thought i was just being decidedly thick as I still don't see the difference either
Mumtooboys - could you explain how you see it as majorly different? |
Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 5:08pm
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too lazy to deal with them.....
hmmmmm 
well that to me implies that nothing else has been tried and instead of seeing how the child/baby would respond to different methods, chose the path of least resistance/work for them and stuck to that. ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker">
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Posted By: mummyofprinces
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 5:11pm
Can totally relate to that! We are only human after all. -------------
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Posted By: Mum_me
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 6:57pm
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Personally we haven't used CC or CIO, but this is mostly due to the fact that both my babies have been sick (reflux and eczema), therefore it would have been cruel beyond belief to leave them to cry. In some ways we are lucky I guess that we have not had to make that decision.
Re the locking toddlers in their bedroom v's shutting doors with high handles. For the child there is absolutely no difference - the back of the door looks the same regardless. Maybe the parents thought that it was different in their minds as they had not made the conscious decision to put a lock (or a gate) on the door, instead deluding themselves that what they had done was better as their house was made that way, so it was meant to be that the child is locked in. Personally when we were struggling getting DS to stay in bed we meant to put a lock on the door, but never got around to it - I guess this makes us extremely lazy parents LOL
We are intending on building a house in the next year, and I fully intend on putting high door handles in the childrens room. Not sure if that makes good or bad in the orginal posters eyes 
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Posted By: emz
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 7:33pm
Thank you Bombshell! You said exactly what I was trying to get across. We did CIO, but yes I knew Jack's cries. With Ava, I don't, because most of her cries are in pain, so CIO has never worked for us, except for the times I've had to let her cry because I couldn't physically stay awake (hey I haven't slept a full night since April last year due to various issues, so I was sleep deprived to start with!) As for the locks - we have really high door handles and we ALWAYS shut the door - we have to or we would be putting Jack back to bed over 100 times a night. With dealing with another child and working at night, I wouldn't get anything done and it would give him too much attention (he gets over-excited when he's given freedom like that at night). Lazy - no. Sensible - yes. I haven't had one parent with low door handles not envy how high ours are! (And yes I would put a lock on if we had low door handles). |
Posted By: peachy
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 8:33pm
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Oh gosh I must be really soft cause I have never shut DD's door!!!! Once in bed she stays in bed so I haven't had any need to I guess, but TBH I wouldn't feel comfortable shutting it either. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: HoneybunsMa
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 9:47pm
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My cousins son at 2 was a little terror and would kick and scream and get out of bed "one more story" "i'm thirsty" you know the usuals theyhad no locks but they used to stick a broom under the handle when he was going to bed until he went to sleep I can see the reasoning behind it. If I have to and will probably have to with DD then I will assess it at the time ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker">
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Posted By: fire_engine
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 10:42pm
I'd do exactly what you did. I don't do CIO at night. I do controlled grizzling but not controlled crying. I'd leave DS for a couple of minutes to check if it was a quick waking in between sleep cycles, if not, get up, quickly check the nappy and try patting. If that didn't work (and it never did), then a warm, diluted bottle. Sometimes I'd end up taking him outside just to change the scenery for him. I think occasionally he would get up and play in the dim light and we wouldn't interact but weirdly, this only ever happened when he was brewing a nasty ear infection. He'd usually tire within 30 minutes. DS was, and still is, happy to feed back to sleep so that was our default option in the night. ------------- Mum to two wee boys |
Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 10:58pm
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i remember when i had my first and my mum said that you should never leave them cry longer than ten minutes. back in her day it was believed that boys especially could get a hernia if left to cry for longer than that! ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker">
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Posted By: emz
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 11:49pm
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Elle, that's what Jack does, kicks at the door, yells, screams, uses needing to go to the toilet as a stalling tactic... the list goes on.
He was fine for the first 6 months in his bed, then starting getting up way too much. |
Posted By: kellie
Date Posted: 26 February 2010 at 9:34am
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That is so horrible being left to cry for that long. It is really sad. When babies cry the stress they feel is real. Their brains are flooded with the stress hormone cortisol which can have a detrimental effect on social brain development.
That would be in the extreme though like the women in the OP ------------- 
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Posted By: mumtooboys
Date Posted: 26 February 2010 at 9:54am
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Ok, I haven't read all the replies but think some clarification is in order because somehow a question about locked doors got translated somehow into a dislike of shutting doors and baby gates across doors.
The "they' and 'you' referred to were the people I personally know, NOT in direct reference to anyone here cause I don't know most of you from a bar of soap........'they' do it because in their words, not mine, they just don't want to deal with their kids so yeah locking a kid in their room because they don't want to deal with them is IMO in relation to THOSE people lazy. What I meant to say in relation to closing doors was that there was a big difference between a locked door and a closed one when they CAN reach handles (not can't as I have apparently typed))because a child who has a closed door but CAN reach the handles has the option of opening their door, if you LOCK them in they do not and THAT is what I have an issue with. We close DS1's door because a) we don't want DS2 going in and waking him up when he is asleep and b) he prefers it that way (usually closes it himself if we don't) we also close our lounge door so DS2 isn't wandering the house but none of the others because we want him to know that he can come to us in the night if he needs us. For US, closing a door on a child who is already 'hyped up' about going to bed is like waving a red flag in front of a bull and is much 'easier' for us to leave the door open and deal with a child who won't stay ion bed than one who tears his bedroom apart because we close his door; he doesn't have a choice about the fact that it is bedtime but he does have a choice about HOW he deals with the fact that it is bedtime and he isn't tired. We don't get those sorts of nights very often, and if he's not tired he's happy to play in his room quietly or read and those are the choices he's been given. I asked a question based on people I personally knew who thought it was perfectly acceptable to lock their kids in their rooms so they couldn't get out even if they wanted to and advocated it to others. I didn't become a parent to dictate to my children, I became a parent to guide them in the process of becoming productive, happy, responsible members of society. They have a bedtime, they know what it is and if there are other means at my disposal to keep them in their rooms without closing/locking doors then that's what we do.......others apparently don't. I don't care what anyone thinks of my parenting choices, most people would think I am 'pandering' to them if they knew half the stuff we did BUT this is what is best for us as a family. If someone else thinks that locking their kids in their rooms is 'right' for them as a family then it's right for them as a family. I just asked what locking them in is teaching them; I have my own ideas about that but I was curious what other people thought. I make no apologies for being appalled at the thought of defenceless children being locked in their rooms because their parents don't want to deal with them any more than I would if I learned that my neighbour hit their kid with a pipe to 'teach them a lesson'. My personal moral compass screams at how some kids are treated in the name of 'training' or 'parenting'. That's not me questioning the parent, it's me questioning the parenting STYLE. That's my clarification in relation to locked doors and small children...if anyone else wants further clarification or insight into my apparent non logic please feel free to PM me. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 26 February 2010 at 10:12am
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tee hee mumtooboys i sometimes feel that i show apparent non logic with regards to raising the kids too! ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker">
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Posted By: caitlynsmygirl
Date Posted: 26 February 2010 at 10:47am
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Confession time !!!
....Sometimes I pretend i've been naughty and put myself in time out and lock the door ,so er ...they don't have to deal with me for 5 minutes .... -------------
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Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 26 February 2010 at 10:55am
OMG me too! i tell them - mummys having time out! it works much better if i do it than them! ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker">
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Posted By: emz
Date Posted: 26 February 2010 at 7:16pm
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Woah, must have a bad parenting style and be incredibly lazy then - oh well, funnily enough my kids are doing pretty well and we haven't been reported to CYFS over shutting him in his room at night. Funny that.
Kelly - hmm should try that myself, I used to lock myself in the toilet but then we had to take the lock off incase Jack locked himself in there, so not even that's a safe haven anymore
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Posted By: M2K
Date Posted: 26 February 2010 at 9:30pm
I always think, well if she wakes up a few times again during the morning I will let her cry it out... but its so hard too, I never do, just like was said earlier, I chose to be a mummy, and I am there to calm her down when upset, no matter how tired I am, she is worth it 
But then I have only one so far, so who knows how it might be with 2 or more, I might go with Kellys idea and lock myself away too haha ------------- 
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Posted By: busyissy
Date Posted: 26 February 2010 at 9:35pm
| Control crying is a ligtimate technique but most literature says that it is inappropriate under the age of 6 months. Personally I feel horrified because babies that young only ever cry for a need, poor little thing |
Posted By: WestiesGirl
Date Posted: 27 February 2010 at 1:23am
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We do CC but it is only during the day and its mainly grizzling rather than crying. We dont leave him longer than 10 minutes max if he is crying. I never let Jackson cry over night, but thats just the way we wish to parent him. I attend to him over night straight away unless he is just stirring.
We also dont close his door, its pulled to but never shut completely. However, he is still in a cot so not on the move. We will deal with that when we cross that bridge (if we need to). I guess different strokes for different folks. CC wont work if the baby has a need that needs addressing. ------------- Our Angel July 08 Gone but not forgotten
And to complete our family, our princess has arrived 
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Posted By: Emmecat
Date Posted: 27 February 2010 at 9:25am
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The story that started this thread- the woman who I spoke to the other day- didn't use CC. She used scream-it-out on a 4 month old. I think THAT is wrong. ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: mumtooboys
Date Posted: 27 February 2010 at 12:12pm
I thought ALL parents put themselves in time out? LOL I don't lock doors but I will go off and be by myself. It's a fairly recent thing I have discovered in dealing with DS1 who is a 'feeder; ' so if I am angry/grumpy then so is he and the angrier/grumpier he gets the angrier/grumpy I get and well......then we are ready to kill each other. I also tend to find that it works 'better' if I put myself in time out than if I put him in time out.------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: fire_engine
Date Posted: 27 February 2010 at 12:14pm
You're describing my day yesterday. I should have put myself in time out (I would have been in there constantly ) ------------- Mum to two wee boys |
Posted By: mumtooboys
Date Posted: 27 February 2010 at 12:25pm
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We all have days like that...in fact last week I had TWO of them. LOL I find that if we aren't all getting enough sleep that it makes things seem alot worse than they are. So if say I had enough sleep and I wasn't bothered that DS1 was mucking around at the dinner table (eating his dinner but mucking around while he does it) then on a 'bad' day it drives me up the wall and I end up yelling. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: fattartsrock
Date Posted: 27 February 2010 at 6:21pm
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I put myself in time out often... in fact I am in time out right now, lqtm!
And i shut the bedroom doors on them, means the dog (and cat) dosen't sleep on their beds, keeps noise out for sleeping and keeps the small elf contained in the morning... I did try CIO (or SIO) on Jake with our years of sleep issues, but not when he was a tiny baby, [robably closer to one, and It didn't sit well with me, and one of the experts we used in our never ending quest for sleep vindicated that for me, so never used it again and never did it to C either. ------------- The Honest Un PC Parent of 2, usually stuck in the naughty corner! :P |
Posted By: caitlynsmygirl
Date Posted: 27 February 2010 at 6:58pm
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hmmmm, so what you lot are telling me , is that im not the only naughty mum and often , when we are on OB we are actually all in time out ? -------------
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Posted By: emz
Date Posted: 27 February 2010 at 7:03pm
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Pretty much Kelly
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Posted By: caitlynsmygirl
Date Posted: 27 February 2010 at 7:06pm
yay for being naughty and being in time out then !  -------------
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Posted By: rachelsea
Date Posted: 27 February 2010 at 9:04pm
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(Editing post coz I was out when I first read it and didn't read everything)
Hmm ok now I don't really know what I want to say... Don't want to start any arguments, and I personally wouldn't/couldn't do CIO. But the girl this is about is my friend (as is the one who started the thread ) and she's really lovely and her bubba is a happy wee boy. She's quite young and took the advice she got from Plunket (I also got the same advice from them, and from my GP, and from everyone in our families as I am still getting up to my 1yr old - I just chose to ignore them all lol ) and as far as she knows didn't do anything wrong because that was all she knew... And she is also still BFing so doesn't mind anyone BFing
Hope that doesn't come across the wrong way, and maybe I shouldn't have written anything. Just wanted to say that she definitely isn't a monster! She is a real sweetie and her boy and Chelsea love each other (they had a 3hr playdate today and didn't leave each other alone for a second lol - so cute!) sorry if I've offended anyone
Ok will go to bed now before I dig anymore holes ------------- DD 4yrs DS 2yrs http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: rachelsea
Date Posted: 27 February 2010 at 10:26pm
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edited my post above k now bedtime!!
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Posted By: Emmecat
Date Posted: 28 February 2010 at 8:38am
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Hi Rachel Your friend seemed very nice as a person but not bothered at all by her story of leaving bubba to SIO and in fact seemed quite proud about it...which I wouldn't be, but that's just me (and you too I suspect). I TOTALLY think advice given to new mums (esp such young mums) is long lasting and so hard to ignore when we're all impressionable and want to do the right thing. I think it's a real shame if she was told by Plunket and her GP to leave such a young babay to SIO. You can't possible agree with that as being the answer (for the time period she told me I mean)?? ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: freckle
Date Posted: 28 February 2010 at 10:22am
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I can't believe plunket would give that advice for a young baby?? I also can't believe a mum could follow it as I just found it tooo hearbreaking listening to my babies cry and could never leave them that long IMO we find it heartbreaking for a reason... i.e. we're not suppose to leave them to cry... I responded to both my kids whenever they cried and one was a great sleeper from a very young age and one still gets up for cuddles in the night at 2 and usually ends up in our bed by morning (which doesn't worry me in the slightest).... so I think the sleep thing is a lot to do with their personality too... ------------- mum to 3 lovely girls :D |
Posted By: mumtooboys
Date Posted: 28 February 2010 at 11:13pm
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I'm never surprised at the kind of advice some Plunket nurses hand out. LOL I had TWO horrible ones who implied that I was 'starving' DS2 because he wasn't putting on weight to THEIR satisfaction even after explaining numerous times that I and his brother were exactly the same and there was nothing wrong with us either. In the end I stopped taking DS2 to Plunket at all. LOL
Dr Richard Ferber (I think it's Richard) is the staunchest advocate of leaving babies to CIO/SIO and babies who get this 'treatment' are usually referred to as ferberised. Which I think is sad....scary thing is he is a world renowned sleep specialist, particularly when it comes to children, but he seems to know NOTHING about baby/child development and only cares about the sleep aspects so he has 'power' because he is an 'expert' in his field. Personally I would never employ this mans methods but as Rachel pointed out, we do the best we can with the information we have at the time and I reckon it's what we do when we have more/different information that can be telling.
I've learned alot since DS1 was born 6.5 years ago and I did things with him that now make me sad (for him and for me)because I just didn't have a clue and allowed the advise of other people to over ride my instincts. Now we do and we parent differently and we are happy (for the most part) with the parenting choices we make. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Maya
Date Posted: 01 March 2010 at 1:17pm
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I was told to let the gremlins cry it out for up to 5 hours between feeds at night when they were 5 weeks old. They are now 3 1/2, and still absolutely atrocious sleepers . -------------  Maya Grace (28/02/03)
(02/01/06)
The Gremlins:Sienna Marie & Mercedes Kailah (14/10/06)
Lil miss:Chiara Louise Chloe (09/07/08)
Her ladyship:Rosalia Sophie Anais (18/06/12)
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