?? for non-vaccinating parents...
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Topic: ?? for non-vaccinating parents...
Posted By: Emmecat
Subject: ?? for non-vaccinating parents...
Date Posted: 11 September 2009 at 10:26am
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Hi folks WIthout gettng into a debate, just wanted to ask some of you non-vaccinating parents a couple of things on how you dealt with some issues surrounding your decision. A little background on my situation...Clodagh is now 16 weeks (how? when? My questions are:
Any constructive feedback appreciated plus any other comments about what non-vaccinated challenges (if any) you face as your baby grows older. TIA -------------   http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> 
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Replies:
Posted By: skp
Date Posted: 11 September 2009 at 11:54am
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Hi we are not vaccinating and our girl is 8wks old. I agree about the pressure!!! so many letters from our Dr and the national register etc.
We are very careful our DD is not around kids that have just had shots at the moment, she is too little to be exposed to the live viruses. We won't be vaccinating at all, hey look on the www.ias.org.nz website it has good info. Sorry typing with one hand hope that all makes sense ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 11 September 2009 at 12:53pm
I must be special, no pressure from my doc or plunket nurse, in fact both have been supportive of our decision. One of the nurses at the docs annoyed me at Kyle's 3 month appointment by hounding me about the decision but she had nothing constructive to say apart from "what if he gets measles?" and then she wrote in his well child book in massive letters "refused vaccination" which still pisses me off, considering there is a tiny check box for that purpose and also none of the other nurses have ever done that in Spencer or Kyle's book before or questioned me about the decision. I figure when I have just seen the doc 2 mins before it is not their place to debate it. However I overcome that by not seeing the nurse at the 5 month one, plunket weighs and measures him so no point having the nurse at the docs do the same thing and they haven't said anything.
I always get the reminder through to come for the jabs but when I phone I just make the appointment but tell them were not doing the jabs and they say ok (in actual fact the receptionist already knows now anyway and says it for me). Our doc likes to check them over each time and he never bothers me about not doing the jabs, I actually think he is anti them, not that he has gone so far to say that but some comments he has made has made me think that perhaps he is not 100% in support of them. As for mixing with people it has never stopped me taking them anywhere, I figure the more they are exposed to the more immunity they will build up and I'm not gonna be ruled by what ifs. If I know of an outbreak or a child with something then I would probably avoid depending on what it was, same as I keep mine at home when they are ill with something. Daycare and in home care have both been fine about them not being vaccinated but they do need to know for their records so they will ask. Every now and then I question my decision or I might think about doing certain jabs, was recently wondering about the tetanus and polio one, whenever I feel like that I just go and look at all the research again and I always come away feeling happy about our decision again. Dh never worries about it. ------------- 
 
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Posted By: skp
Date Posted: 11 September 2009 at 4:32pm
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we have very recently got a new family dr and he actually said I don't think this child will take well to vaccination - it was our old one who put heaps of pressure on us.
I totally agree to exposing them to stuff, our DH is just a bit little and not 100% BF so im being careful till she gets a bit stronger ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: QHX
Date Posted: 11 September 2009 at 5:11pm
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The only time I have taken my DD to the doc was for her 6 week check and the pressure to vaccinate was immense. I am amazed I got out of there with the same child I went in with. They were desperate to vaccinate her. I also told plunket I would no longer require their services because I got sick of the guilt trip and the harassment. I have never regretted my decision for a second. I know when all my friends vaxed children get constant ear infections and illness after illness that I made the best choice for my child (this is just my opinion and everyone makes the best choice for them at the time). I firmly believe that future generations will look back on vaccinations like we look back on the old practice of blood letting in the past.
My MIL is a kindy teacher and Margaux is a very social baby,we visit her and the older kids quite a bit and I think it is good for her to have that exposure to other children. She is yet to have anything more significant than a runny nose (which we fix with homeopathics). It has never stopped us from going anywhere or doing anything. I think she has less risk of illness as a result of not having her immune system compromised at such a young age. We also support her immune system by breastfeeding, providing healthy whole foods, a warm dry home and I have never given her pamol or any other pharmaceutical product.
Honestly the biggest challenge for us are the hard core pro vaccinators. I don't tell people about our choices unless they ask because I can't be bothered with the argument. Both sides are very staunch and I am not looking to convert anyone. Every time a stranger tells me how bright, sunny and alert my child is I know I made the right choice.
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Posted By: skp
Date Posted: 11 September 2009 at 10:04pm
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QHX, we are the same. our DH has never had pamol or other drugs only homeopathics. Unfortunately I have never has enough milk due to breast surgery so she is a half FF half BF baby.
We also get heaps of comments on how alert she is compared with other babies I didn't take as much as a panadol during my pregnancy and sure it all makes a difference ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: SBM
Date Posted: 12 September 2009 at 3:49pm
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I'm not much help since my DD is only 13 weeks, but we too have chosen not to vaccinate (yet, anyway) and I've never even thought of the things you mentioned as being risky! That might just be me being uninformed though... if I need informing, please do!
Also I figure it's better to "regret" not vaccinating than to regret vaccinating - at least you can start vaccinations at any age, but you can't undo a vaccination once it's done! (I posted this in the other, identical thread, but this one seems to be where the action's at!) |
Posted By: kellie
Date Posted: 12 September 2009 at 4:52pm
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Hey
As long as bubs is getting all the essential vitamins and minerals etc they will be strong and healthy When Clodagh gets a bit older you can fill her diet with immunity boosting foods. Another thing you can do is to research the best ways to treat the diseases. For example, Vitamin A is a necessity for Measles as the vit a stores in the body are the first thing attacked which results in the photophobia etc Weirdly though, it isn't a recognised treatment in nz. ------------- 
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Posted By: stefany3
Date Posted: 12 September 2009 at 8:13pm
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I agree with a lot of what QHX wrote.
I think the risk of vaccinated kids is the same as non-vaccinated kids. I wouldn't knowingly put DS in a situation where there was an outbreak of something, at least not at this age. I think I would give him chickenpox at an older age, where his immune system was stronger, I hear some people take their kids to 'chickenpox party's' haha. I used to be a bit regretful of our decision to not vaccinate, but now i know i made the right choice. We never give DS pamol or drugs. When we went to the Dr for the 6 week check, I am also surprised, like QHX, that we got out of there without the vaccines! so much pressure from the nurse. But I've not had anymore pressure from the Dr or Plunket. I got a few disapproving looks from friends, so I don't mention it now unless I'm directly asked. I just don't take part in those conversations. I hadn't thought about not letting DS near recently vacinated kids, i'll keep that in mind know, as that could be a bit risky with the live viruses around, thanks for that tip. ------------- 
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Posted By: ajmmum
Date Posted: 12 September 2009 at 8:49pm
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I sought out a dr that wouldnt put pressure on me - but it took ages and a few phone calls to see how drs responded, asked a few people on here I knew werent having issues with their doctors, then went with an anthroposophical one.
At 13 weeks, no issues so far, no colds nothing... but then I havent been very social around babies, he has been around a few adults though. I would just make sure he is taught well about how to keep clean, don't share bottles etc although I think that should be the case vaccinated or not. So far with all the non vaccinated babies in my family, we have had one case of chicken pox that lasted 3 days, and none of the other diseases. Very healthy kids, far healthier than most children it seems! Colds etc seem to be beaten a lot faster as well. My main "disease" concern at the moment is actually Plunket - my nurse doesn't seem to wash her hands or sanitise anything (apart from laying down a few bits of paper on surfaces) and I'm wondering what, if any, prevention measures plunket are taking when they go from one child to the next? ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: skp
Date Posted: 12 September 2009 at 10:35pm
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Hey we go to an anthroposophical Dr too! Dr Leitch in Mt Eden - I think there is only one other one in Auckland in titirangi ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: SBM
Date Posted: 12 September 2009 at 10:38pm
What's a anthroposophical doctor!? 
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Posted By: ajmmum
Date Posted: 13 September 2009 at 8:18am
skp - Same doc! 
Looks a little like a Munster family member - but just brilliant. Anthroposophical doctors work around Steiner principles - the one I go to is western trained, as well as having a more holistic approach to medicine. The concept is you nurse at home, using natural remedies (he prescribed me homeopathic teething remedy) and use your doctor as a last resort. The anthroposophical society of new zealand had a bunch of info (google it) as well as I found googling anthroposophical doctor found me a list... just looked at it, and there are a few in Christchurch, all based out of the Helios Integrative Medical Centre in Opawa? (don't know Christchurch to know where that is sorry!) ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: QHX
Date Posted: 13 September 2009 at 8:34am
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So many pro-vaxers think that not having the jabs makes you a lazy parent, but I think the opposite is true. For me having an unvaccinated child means taking a pro-active approach to health. Kellie is totally right with what she says about researching each disease. I have the belief that I am the one responsible for the health of my child. It frustrates me when people blindly follow advice from medical professionals just because they are medical professionals. They are people too, and fallible. Medicine is a huge topic and one person can't know the answer to everything and there can't be just one way to fix something, just like there can't be only one way to protect and care for the health of your baby. Choosing not to immunise is choosing to take responsibility and tune into the needs of your child (but I am in no way implying that parents who vax are irresponsible).
You are lucky if you live in an area where anthroposophical doctors are available. I did an anthroposophical course in home nursing and the tutors told me the Helios centre in chch was the best.
edited to try and avoid offending parents who vaxed. I know most parents will move heaven and earth to do the best they possibly can for their children
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Posted By: SBM
Date Posted: 13 September 2009 at 12:51pm
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I'll be ringing the Helios Centre tomorrow! Our GP is totally rubbish (though we've only seen him once, and he didn't mention vaccs at all LOL) and I've been meaning to try and find a new one. These guys sound like just what I've been looking for!
How are they different from Homeopathic doctors?? |
Posted By: ElfsMum
Date Posted: 13 September 2009 at 5:09pm
i am a vaccinator so not getting into this topic but just wanted to say I don't think non-vaccinators are lazy parents at all.(or vice versa) and it's sad people have said that to you.. ------------- Mum to two amazing boys! |
QHX wrote:Posted By: skp
Date Posted: 13 September 2009 at 5:29pm
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Hey this should be a permanent topic so we can share tips etc ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: lisa85
Date Posted: 13 September 2009 at 6:17pm
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I have to admit we originally decided we wouldn't vaccinate but changed our minds when the girls were around 3 months. We changed our minds for a few reasons although none of them was due to medical pressure. Although there was plenty of it! I was shocked how aggressive the doctors and nurses can be when you tell them you don't want to vaccinate. They definitely put the pressure on
We only changed our minds because I couldn't breastfeed & felt that breastfeeding was such a big part in helping to build their immunities. I say yay you for not vaccinating and putting in the hard work to manage your childs health yourself. I think it's very commendable and I wish you all the best. Also I agree with Cuppatea regarding taking her everywhere. I think it's better to let them get into everything and build their own immunities. Although in saying that obviously you would avoid places where big outbreaks of the bigger ones (like measles) are happening. Although I do feel the need to respond to QHX who commented that she has friends with Vaxed kids who are always sick with colds and bugs. My kids are completely up to date with vaccines and have only ever had 2 colds and one tummy bug in 16 months. They have always been very bright, alert & extremely content babies. They have slept through the night since 9 weeks and are happy 90 percent of the time. So I would be inclined to believe that your healthy wee girl is so wonderfully bright and happy because her parents are doing such an awesome job at raising her and giving her the right foods rather than her not being vaccinated. Because my two have been vaccinated, have been given pamol plenty of times and are rarely if ever sick or grumpy  -------------  
TTC #3 since Jan 2010 - PCOS MC April 2010 |
Posted By: QHX
Date Posted: 13 September 2009 at 7:18pm
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Lisa85, I had hoped I was clear that it was just my opinion, and in no way an indication of the whole vaxed population
Your girls are seriously beautiful. I have so much admiration for anyone with twins. I cannot fathom! I would agree with skp that sharing tips is a great idea. I love hearing about how other mothers tackle common ills with pharma free solutions.
And yes, it would seem all the really scary pro-vaxers in all NZ have hunted me out and harassed me
 (edited due to crappy spelling)
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Posted By: BlaBla_152
Date Posted: 13 September 2009 at 7:59pm
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Hi there,
our son is 19 months and has only had his d-tap vaccines so far. We haven't realy worried about him socialising with other children and people as long as there not sick as far as where aware. We are now regreting not having all of his vaccines done and will be getting him vaccinated to catch up as we have just realised that if he chooses to go into a health proffesion now that he won't even be allowed entry into the coarse with out having had his childhood vaccines (safety procaution now). I want to be a midwife and found this out when I was looking at the enrollment details I just thank my lucky stars that my mum got my vaccines done or I wouldn't be able to persue my dream career. |
Posted By: kellie
Date Posted: 13 September 2009 at 8:30pm
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I thought they tested your immunity, and gave you jabs if you weren't immune? And I am pretty sure the main ones you have to be jabbed for are hep b and c, measles, mumps, rubella and chickenpox.
Midwifery understandably could be more strict due to the job nature. My Aunt is in the health field and she wasn't vaxxed as a child. -------------
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Posted By: kellie
Date Posted: 13 September 2009 at 8:40pm
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Also, immunity for measles and rubella tends to wear off after about 10 years. I know so many women(myself included) who had MMR as a child, and found out they had no immunity to rubella while pregnant.
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 14 September 2009 at 6:46am
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It is a requirement of my course to be up to date with tetanus or to sign a waiver to say that you are aware of the risks but CHOOSE not to be vaccinated. I find it unimaginable that you could be restricted from any career because you CHOOSE not to vaccinated.
I think you need to read the course requirements again. I like Kellie said, even if it is a requirement you child would be able to have them later in life anyway. Oh and in a previous job I worked with sewerage, not directly  , but on the processing equipment and my employer didn't even know that we should have been vaccinated, once they found out they offered to pay for them if we chose to have them but they certainly didn't threaten to sack any of us or refuse to employ someone on those grounds. Health and safety is more of a personal responsibility under NZ law.-------------
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Posted By: ElfsMum
Date Posted: 14 September 2009 at 8:33am
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re the hep b vaccine..i have had three(actually four shots) to both hep a and b due to my work with special needs children and then teaching and I am still not immune..so sometimes it doesn't work..
so you can't be a mw if you aren't vaccinated?? ------------- Mum to two amazing boys! |
Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 14 September 2009 at 9:11am
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Yeah the hep ones are pretty pointless, I had them done back before I knew anything about vaccines and had I have known I wouldn't have bothered. Even when the nurse did it she said that it wouldn't make me immune, suppose I should have asked a few more questions really. Funny how when it is your own health you don't pay as much attention or worry as much as when it's your kids
I don't think any job could make you have the vaccines, what if your were allergic or something, it's just not plausible. I think it will be much like other health and safety stuff in that the employer has to provide the information and equipment (in this case the vaccines) but it is the responsibility of the individual to use them. You would probably need to sigh a waiver the same as I have. I'm doing vet nursing, the risk is probably as high if not higher. -------------
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Posted By: skp
Date Posted: 14 September 2009 at 10:02am
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rubbish I say to compulsory (childhood) vaccinations to work in the health profession! My DH is a Dr!
And how would they know? if you lost your vax cert. and opted out of the national register? ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: kellie
Date Posted: 14 September 2009 at 11:34am
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This is what it says under the bachelor of medicine and surgery course requirements for Otago uni
Immunisation Requirements All students who enter the second year of the MB ChB programme are required to provide evidence of their immune status for the following specific diseases before classes begin: hepatitis B, hepatitis C, measles, mumps, rubella and varicella (chickenpox). The evidence of immunity must be provided by a New Zealand registered medical practitioner. Failure to comply with these requirements will mean that students cannot proceed with clinical training and in the interests of patient and student safety no exceptions can be made. The status of students with respect to tuberculosis will be established during the second year of the programme prior to entering the hospital-based portion of the programme. But I do note it says "Second year", which would give an unvaccinated young adult plenty of time to get jabbed if they chose to in later life. -------------
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Posted By: skp
Date Posted: 14 September 2009 at 11:51am
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and by the time our kids are at uni they can make up there own minds if they wish to be vaccinated or not ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: kellie
Date Posted: 14 September 2009 at 12:02pm
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Exactly.
I wouldn't have any problem if that is was my son chose to do. His immune system by then will be much more equipped to handle what is in the vaccine. At the moment it is underdeveloped. -------------
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Posted By: skp
Date Posted: 14 September 2009 at 3:25pm
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God its so nice to chat with like minded people! is anyone in Auckland who wants to meet up? I'm struggling to find a coffee group with people with similar values etc ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 14 September 2009 at 3:34pm
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See below is what is says about my course but when the paper work came through you could sign a waiver to say that you choose not to immunise, so even though that midwifery one says you have to provide immunity status you will probably find that you can still choose not to and that there will be something on the paperwork for you to sign to that effect. I had to have my GP say that I knew the risks and for him to sign it also.
Cos it only says evidence of immunity status, it doesn't say it is compulsory for them to have the jabs. Applicants must supply certified copies of proof of identify, academic records, proof of residency (where appropriate), evidence of current tetanus status, and a curriculum vitae. STUDENT LOANS/ALLOWANCES: Full-time students of this programme are eligible for student loans, Sorry skp, I'm down south. Does ias run coffee groups? -------------
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Posted By: queenb
Date Posted: 14 September 2009 at 3:37pm
I'm in!
I have yet to be convinced babies should be vaccinated. Doc & nurse were horrified at missymoo's 6week check up. Told them DH & I made an informed decision that we're happy with. Got the "mumps outbreak" lecture then GP said not that she's old enough for that vaccination. DOH! We had an awesome midwife who was so supportive & pro-natural. We had a home waterbirth with minimal assistance from mw. Miss L is a healthy, happy & very alert baby, from day 1
So great to see we are "not alone" ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: kellie
Date Posted: 14 September 2009 at 3:57pm
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Skp: I agree. Must admit I have been a little surprised that this thread hasn't been hijacked yet. Very happy though!! I live in Thames, but do come up to Auckland frequently. my email is Kellarni@msn.com if we have enough for a coffee group.
cuppatea, that is encouraging to hear that your course offers a waiver. I hope most do, and I would have thought they would tbh. I don't see how compulsory vaccination can wash as regularly they are not effective/don't last for that long. -------------
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Posted By: Emmecat
Date Posted: 14 September 2009 at 4:40pm
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Wow I unleashed a monster lol It's been interesting reading your responses....I have taken Clodagh everywhere with me since she was a brand new newborn and just seemed common sense to not let other people cuddle her too much and certainly kept her clear of pre schoolers or school kids where possible...but am relaxing a little each week as she gets older and in theory, stronger! Obviously if I know of an outbreak of something I would keep her clear of that if I could! I also keep getting the comment from nurses 'but there's a measles epidemic' Most people have been supportive but I think I might try to find a like minded Dr anyway. The other issue I"m having right now is a sleep one (or lack of). Clodagh's decided she doesn't like her bassinette (possible is getting a little long for it) but certainly doesn't like her cot (I've been trying day sleeps in there and it is NO GO ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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)...in fact the only places she likes to sleep are out for walks with Mummy and Daddy or even better, in bed with us! I have no problem co-sleeping safely but again, feel a bit of pressure that at her age she 'should' be sleeping in a cot or her own room....I don't actually want this for her yet! Posted By: kellie
Date Posted: 14 September 2009 at 4:50pm
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Maybe get a miracle blanket? We had great success with one of those regarding sleeps. Look on trademe, or the sleepstore.co.nz etc
Sirius is still co-sleeping/room sharing with us at 8 months. Has his own cot in there though. -------------
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Posted By: queenb
Date Posted: 14 September 2009 at 4:58pm
Emmecat, we co-sleeped until about a month ago, and only because Layla started waking hourly for a feed! She realised I was an open all hours cafe  Miss L went from waking hourly to only 2x a night when she went into her cot
Your lil one definitely isn't being manipulative, and I'm sure when she is ready for her cot she'll sleep happily in it. Hey, what's wrong with being "indulgent" anyway As long as you, DH and Clodagh are happy ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: ajmmum
Date Posted: 14 September 2009 at 5:17pm
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I still occasionally co sleep, and he sleeps in his cot in my room, and it's not like you can spoil them with love... and we only get to do this a couple of times if we're lucky! I say, do what you like!
And I'm in Auckland - happy as with the coffee group idea... have also struggled finding like minded people who wont stare at me like I'm the devil when i mention he's not vaccinated! ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: SBM
Date Posted: 14 September 2009 at 8:25pm
Emmecat, my DD is EXACTLY the same, though she's never slept in the bassinet and we don't even have a cot I  co-sleeping with her but I'd also like the freedom to not have to lie on my side all night with a boob out... I tried rolling onto my back but she just wakes me up an hour later and I end up on my side again.
But what I'd really like to change is the fact that I can't put her down anywhere to sleep (except the pram) during the day. If she falls asleep in arms we can put her down in the bassinet but she wakes up within 20 minutes, if not instantly! Would just be so wonderful to have a couple hours each day free where both mummy AND daddy can be baby-free!! |
Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 14 September 2009 at 8:38pm
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It will happen Sarah, it just all falls in to place honestly.
All for co-sleeping too. According to my supernanny book there is no such thing as spoiling a child under 18 months and you should give them as much love and feelings of security as possible. How's that for some common sense? Kyle was in our room till 7 months (in his cot next to our bed) and often ended up in bed with us. The only bit I didn't like is that i would wake up uncomfy so didn't always get a great sleep. I co-slept with Spencer when he was little too and honestly he is the best sleeper I know. He sleeps 12-13 hours a night without fail and I can count on one hand the number of times he has ended up in our bed in the last 18 months. I took Kyle to bed with me a couple of weeks ago cos he was teething and wouldn't settle and it was great until he head butted me at 2am and then decided he was hungry and I can't feed in bed cos my boobs go off like sprinklers so I always have to get up which is a pain. I must admit with all the media hype over measles I have tried to avoid the conversation coming up, I've never made a secret of not vaccinating, although have only ever told people when directly asked, but now I try not to get into the conversation in the first place or avoid answering it somehow. Doesn't help when the last few stories I have seen have portrayed non vaxxing parents of being too lazy to go and get the jabs rather than explaining that many of us don't do them for a good reasons. Oh well I suppose it would be expecting too much for the media to not be one sided or to not try to drum up hysteria over something. Swine flu got boring so time to scare the crap out of everybody over measles and the evil non vaxxing parents. -------------
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Posted By: skp
Date Posted: 14 September 2009 at 9:26pm
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Hey cool so there are a few ladies keen to meet maybe if everyone interested could PM me emails, so I have a list and can the email everyone?
------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: ajmmum
Date Posted: 14 September 2009 at 10:02pm
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Have sent you mine skp... will be moving out of Auckland in a couple of weeks, but only an hour away, and on to the farm to grow some veges and tidy up the massive medicinal herb garden that was left by the previous owner (but is now terribly neglected)...
And agree about media hype cuppatea, I get so frustrated watching the bollocks that passes as journalism these days! So much misinformation and hype, because the real facts aren't that interesting I think! When it's boring, embellish. That way you might get your story run two or three nights in a row! ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: skp
Date Posted: 15 September 2009 at 10:38pm
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Does anyone have info on vitamin remedies for illnesses eg Vit C for whooping cough? or can recommend a website or book with this sort of info? ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: kellie
Date Posted: 15 September 2009 at 10:52pm
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Google 'beyondvaccination' and you will find some forums that cover alternative treatment methods. They are extremely useful and cover everything really. The admin is Hilary Butler who wrote Just a little prick.
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Posted By: Emmecat
Date Posted: 16 September 2009 at 10:21am
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Thanks for your replies re the sleep problem guys.... RANT COMING We had the worst night yet last night, Clodagh just does NOT want to sleep in her bassinette. NO WAY. She can scream hard out for as long as it takes. I lost the plot last night and yelled at her...how bad am I??? She is fine in our bed generally and this has only just started the last 2 weeks or so (up till then she's been a good bassinette sleeper)...I just don't know what I'm doing wrong. Mum keeps telling me she's being naughty and to put her down and leave her but it breaks my heart and believe me, I am no soft touch and nobodies fool lol but it kills me to see her so upset. I've tried playing with her and BF her in the nursery during the day so gets used to it, but she seems a bit ho hm aout it. She just seems much more clingy than normal. What do I want? Part of me wants her to go to sleep in her own damn bed lol Is ti a good idea do you think to move Clodagh's cot into our room so she has her big girls bed if she wants but also our bed if she needs it? She seems to sleep better in bigger beds so I'm wondering if she's feeling a little confined in her bassinette now (shes a tall chubby girl ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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I just want whats best (I also want a big sleep now lol Posted By: ajmmum
Date Posted: 16 September 2009 at 10:30am
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I found Aston slept way better in his cot than his basinette - he's a big boy too and I think the basinette was just too confining after my bed! Heaps of room to stretch out in Mum's bed, then sides of basinette seem awfully close!
I understand the frustration - I eased Aston into his cot (in our room) when I wasn't tired, let him have a few day sleeps in there, familiar toys to wake up to etc, then did the night thing. I made sure I was there when he woke up as well, so he didnt get scared in his new "home". I think babies are pretty adaptable - I've found sleep bags seem to helps as well, I can move Aston just about anywhere now. Important as he has a cot in town and one out at the farm. Last night I was too tired to lift him in and out of cot (his 7kg+ now feels like a huge weight) and so he just slept in with me for the night. Is back in his cot for his nap at the moment though! Don't be too hard on yourself, it can be frustrating as these little one's try to express their independence in the only way they know how. I also had the same thing happen with Aston re: teething, although only little, his teeth were definately moving so I got on to the amber necklace & homeopathic teething remedy & had a clingy bub for a couple of days. He got over it after about 5 days I think? ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: Emmecat
Date Posted: 16 September 2009 at 10:32am
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'scuse my terrible spelling...had about 4 hours sleep in 2 days! ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: ElfsMum
Date Posted: 16 September 2009 at 10:50am
wow 8% of people i think it was who do those jabs dont get immune like me so therefore I wouldn't be able to carry on..now that's really unfair:( and even pro people like me dont generally get chickenpox done. interesting!thanks for that..anyway will step out of your thread now:) ------------- Mum to two amazing boys! |
Posted By: SBM
Date Posted: 16 September 2009 at 10:53am
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Emmecat, are you my long lost twin??!
I'm co-sleeping, vegetarian BFing and our bubbas are less than a month apart in age! I know exactly how you feel, and for me, I just asked some people who had similar values to me pre-breakdown and they told me the things I was doing good and the things I might like to change, and I knew I could trust them as I knew they would see the situation like how I would have if I weren't so worried about what I was doing and if I should be doing something different! I think that if you want to and are able to co-sleep and give her loads of cuddles then DO!! Clodagh is still so little, and there's no way she's manipulating you by crying - if she's crying it's because something is wrong and she'd probably like mummy to fix it for her until she's old enough to fix it for herself. I think moving her cot into your room is a fantastic idea! Also, a friend sent me http://www.dreamparenting.com/images/stories/the%20crying%20game%20-%20nth%20and%20sth%20magazine%20aug%202007.pdf - this article when I was feeling unsure about what I was doing - I haven't read it all through yet but from what I have read it all makes sense to me and what I believe. Maybe it will help you too?  for you and Clodagh and I hope things get better for you both soon!
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Posted By: lisa85
Date Posted: 16 September 2009 at 11:06am
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Awwww big Emmecat. Sounds like your having a pretty rough time. Personally I'm a fan of tough love my two have been in their cot in their room since day one and have been awesome when it comes to bed time. If they cry we let them and they soon learnt crying doesn't get them anywhere, so they very rarely cry at bedtime. I honestly think having her in your bed is just going to make things harder for you and Clodagh May down the track. But then I really don't know many people who co-sleep so my opinion is pretty one-sided. Really at the end of the day it's about what ever works best for you guys. If having her in your bed is keeping you and her happy do it and enjoy every moment. We did it a couple of times when the girls first came home and I loved the feeling of having them wrapped up in bed with me. Theres no way my two would happily sleep in my bed now. It would just be chaos lol. But it sounds as if shes already getting pretty comfy in your bed and is learning that crying is the best way to get herself there. My Mum said to me once if your baby is crying but stops when you pick them up theres is absolutely nothing wrong they are just learning to get their own way at a very early age.
Best of luck chic. Hope things improve soon -------------
TTC #3 since Jan 2010 - PCOS MC April 2010 |
Posted By: lisa85
Date Posted: 16 September 2009 at 11:16am
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Haha Sarah you must have been writing at the same time as me. I just read Sarahs post then mine. I have come to the conclusion that I'm actually quite ignorant of co-sleeping so ignore my post which is basically suggesting you shouldn't do it lol. I forget that not everyone raises kids the same.
I think Sarahs advice is wonderful and much more relevant to your situation Emmecat so ignore me I'm just having an all about me day -------------
TTC #3 since Jan 2010 - PCOS MC April 2010 |
Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 16 September 2009 at 1:48pm
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Yeah I would move the cot into your room that's what we did with Kyle and then he would start the night in there and then if after a feed/wake up he couldn't resettle I would just stick him in bed with us, he didn't move to his own room till 7 months and if need be I still put him in bed with us now (haven't needed to for a couple of weeks as he's been really settled).
I personally do not think a 4 month old can be manipulative, they just want their mummy (or daddy) and why wouldn't they? they are just babies. Hug her, cuddle her and co-sleep with her. It won't do you or her any harm. One of my baby books, which is actually against co-sleeping but I just ignore that bit, says that if you leave a baby to cry they cry more not less so that's motivation enough for me. If you want a better sleep then I would transfer her to the cot once she has nodded off and then she may wake sense you are still close and go back to sleep. Also a big fan of sleeping bags here. With the diet thing I have a few tips, I'm not vegetarian but I do a lot of cooking that is dairy and egg free cos of Spencer and Kyle's allergies. Eat tons of porridge, there is a muesli bar recipe in the babe's fantastic tips thread that you can make diary and egg free by using 1/4 cup oil instead of egg and then just a splash more oil and I use a splash or rice milk also until it's the right consistency instead of using the marg that it suggests. All recipes you can replace milk with rice milk and egg with 1/4 cup oil, you won't even notice the difference. Buy the rice milk with added protein (has chick peas in it). Unfortunately I am with you on the weight loss, I have lost far too much and despite stuffing my face constantly I don't seem to be able to put any on. I'm pretty sure it would be different if I was still eating dairy but it's not worth the upset to Kyle. Whenever I worry about making a rod for my own back I just think this. How many 15 year olds are still sleeping in their mums beds, wanting cuddles and hugs constantly, want spoon feeding or are still in nappies? Not many, so non of these things will last forever.
Oh and one more thing, I have co-slept with both my boys as babies and now out of my group of friends I am one of not many that doesn't have a toddler turn up in our bed at night. Spencer is the best sleeper I know, 12-13 hours a night without fail, he will sleep through anything, thunderstorms, fireworks, earthquakes, my noisy dogs barking right outside his bedroom window, he has never woken when Kyle has been crying either. -------------
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Posted By: mummyofprinces
Date Posted: 16 September 2009 at 2:17pm
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Emmecat re the co sleeping. Do what your heart tells you to do. I pushed Jake into his own bed and am regretting it now as he WONT sleep with us. If I put him into bed with us he wants to play. I really miss snuggling up to him at night.
Having said that, when I was weaning him out of our bed, DH and I spent about a week sleeping with our arm over him in his bassinet and it took about 3 weeks of sleeping in the cot before he would sleep well, but he has reflux too so that could be why it took so long. Once he was ok sleeping in the day he was fine in there at night. I didnt move the cot into our room, but if he had struggled at night in his room I would have taken it to our room. I dont believe you can spoil your children by loving them and I firmly believe that you should listen to your gut instinct, if it tells you to leave her cry then do so, if it tells you to go pick her up then do that. Human beings do not listent to their instincts enough and focus far too much on what is expected of us! You know what is best for hun. Sorry if that sounded a bit ranty... (hmm, can you tell this has touched a nerve!) -------------   
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Posted By: freckle
Date Posted: 16 September 2009 at 2:20pm
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I worried so much about getting my girl in her basinette in the early weeks despite the fact I loved her sleeping in the bed with us... In the end I gave in and let her sleep in our bed and we all got sleep Next time I wouldn't put myself through the stress of trying the basinette over and over if it wasn't working... plus I loved how she'd just feed during the night without waking me she eventually started sleeping in her basinette and cot around 8 months and now at 19 months comes in for a cuddle in the morning but sleeps in her own bed...
Cuppatea - you are soooo right how many 15 year olds sleep in mum and dad's bed!! My oldest is turning 13 and NO WAY would she sleep with us and I co-slept with her until 4yrs + weird aye lol
Sarah - that's an awesome article!! I have saved it to read again ------------- mum to 3 lovely girls :D |
Posted By: Mamma2N
Date Posted: 16 September 2009 at 2:54pm
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Just jumping in here
Emmecat I highly recommend the article link that Sarah posted. It completely makes sense. I hope you'll have time to read it. Glad it was of some help Sarah
If there is one thing that has been the biggest learning curve for me since I've had DD, it would be to only use the advice that works for me and ignore the rest. One thing that I am amazed about is how obsessed we are with 'training' our babies to 'fit into our schedule'. Do what is right for you and works for you - don't listen to the critics! Co-sleeping, demand-feeding, night-wakings, boobing to sleep are not 'bad habits'! I hope you've managed to get some rest. ETA - wow - this has gone a bit OT! hehe |
Posted By: kellie
Date Posted: 16 September 2009 at 3:13pm
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Emmecat, I still co sleep with Sirius and he is almost 9months. We only started though when he was about 4 months and would wake hourly to feed. Much easier to BF lying down.
If the reason you want her sleeping in her own bed is purely because that is supposed to be the norm, don't stress!! Co sleeping is so much more common than you think. The benefits for mum and child are huge. If it is what you want to do then don't let anyone stop you. Some people say it is unsafe, but unless you are obese, on drugs or alcohol, or an extremely heavy sleeper it is fine. Sirius has had to sleep in his own bed a few times after co sleeping for months. I was very worried it would be hard to get him to sleep, it was easy as. So don't let that deter you. If you want some tips though for getting her to sleep in her own bed here are a few things that helped me. Swaddling. Especially if she is a big bubba she will probally be hitting the sides of the bassinet with her arms. I highly recommend a miracle blanket. It was a god send. Can get them brandnew from the sleepstore. co. nz or on trademe. A bath just before bed. You could even use a lavender baby bath wash and she will be extremely relaxed. Music of some sort. A white noise cd, or a musical mobile will work great. I would have been lost without http://www.babyuniverse.co.nz/product/tomy-starlight-dreamshow/ - This toy It only costs $30, plays for ten minutes at a time and projects light and images onto the ceiling. Sirius would always go to sleep when we put it on. Also, there is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding a baby to sleep. They sleep better with a full tummy. Maybe try putting her to sleep on her side? Some babies can drift off better this way as it isn't as stimulating. If you are worried about sids, get a wedge from baby factory etc. They only cost about $10. Or once she is asleep roll her gently onto her back. If you think you might want to look into routines, I recommend one like The No Cry Sleep Solution - Elizabeth Pantley. Probally available at your library. If I was going to use a routine I would prefer this over any crying ones. I believe that before babies are 6months they should not be left to cry for longish periods of time. Studies have been done on very small babies that show that when they are crying, the stress they feel is very real. It floods the brain with the stress hormone cortisol which is damaging, but it also impairs brain development. Remember though it will take atleast 3 days for a routine to become set. If I think of anything else I will add it -------------
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Posted By: Emmecat
Date Posted: 16 September 2009 at 4:45pm
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You guys are GREAT...**sobs with all the support** DP and I moved Clodghs cot into our room, took down the side bar and pushed it against my side of the bed. I fed Clodgah this arvo, popped her into 'her' bed...which is now an extension of ours and she lay there gurgling and playing quite happily until sleep overtook both of us and WE HAD A NAP!!!!! Bless everyone, you have made me feel so much better about trusting my instincts and listening to my gut. Thanks for all the tips. Am definately gonna use them! ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: mummyofprinces
Date Posted: 16 September 2009 at 9:08pm
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Thats what I will be doing for the next one
OMG, she is nearly 4 months!!! Where has the time gone? -------------
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Posted By: skp
Date Posted: 16 September 2009 at 10:22pm
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I really believe in just doing whatever you need to, to get through each day.
Does anyone else wish to meet up for a non vacc. coffee group? I have a few PM just wondering if anyone else is keen before I send out a email list? ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Emmecat
Date Posted: 17 September 2009 at 8:15am
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Yep totally keen to meet for coffee if anyone else is in Wellington? We had a much more successful night's sleep last night...Clodagh loved being in her big girls cot next to Mama, had a 2 hour awake time from 1-3 but that was partly Daddy's fault for over stimulating her by playing Then she slept right through from 3am- 7am which is still not quite what she was doing a few weeks ago but is a hell of an improvement on the last fortnights actions! So a much happier Mama this morning...thanks again for all your PM's and support. Wonderful women! ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Babe
Date Posted: 18 September 2009 at 9:03am
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Coming in abit late but we haven't given Jake imms. I kept him at home and quiet for the first little while simply to make sure we both got lots of rest so he didn't really see anyone but hes all good now. He has a compromised immune system from all the stress hormones released into his system during labour but we keep on top of that homeopathically and with a natural diet.
I'm really happy with our decision and baby #2 won't be immunised either. Plunket and all the doctors we've had have been fine (though when I tell them he isn't immunised they also get a 'don't even think about messing with me' look lol) and there hasn't been any pressure at all. As for co-sleeping and the like I don't know much about that but I do think that you have to find what works for you and baby and the rest of the family. For me having Jake in his bassinet in my room was bad coz he woke every hour for a feed or cuddle and I was so desperate for sleep I had trouble functioning so it was best for me to put him in his own room and get into a routine. I didn't do it because I thought I had to socially or because I wanted to make my baby conform but I knew if something didn't change I'd stop coping. He started sleeping for 3 hour stints (he was only a week old so I was happy with that) and ended up sleeping through by 7 weeks with naps and feeds structured around his own natural routine just slightly tweaked by mummy and we both ended up much happier!! He now sleeps for 2-3 hours a day and 12-14 hours through the night without any disturbances and with a well-rested mummy and daddy life is good -------------   
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 18 September 2009 at 11:38am
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Yeah that's a really good point babe, I would never tell someone to co-sleep who wasn't comfy doing so, or to have baby in the room with them if they didn't want. Just need to do what works for you and for baby. I think if you are doing what feels right for you, co-sleeping or having them in their own room, then you feel more relaxed and happy and they pick up on that so equally are more relaxed and happy.
Glad you have had some better sleeps Emmecat, amazing how much better everything is when you've had some sleep. Kyle has a cold and was up 4 times last night like having a newborn again-------------
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Posted By: skp
Date Posted: 18 September 2009 at 11:46am
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hey I have a weird question- I went to visit my friend and her new baby (3wks old) last week and could not stand the smell of her baby. it wasn't that she had a dirty nappy or was unclean, it was like the actual smell of her.
has anyone else ever had this? do you think its because i'm programmed to like how my baby smells? also once you have your own baby does anyone else notice that other babies look kinda weird? god maybe its just me ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Emmecat
Date Posted: 18 September 2009 at 1:07pm
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woohoo another successful night! Ah bummer Kyle has a cold cuppatea. It's so unsettling when they do...poor things. Clodaghs had about 3 already thanks to her older brother! ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: mumtooboys
Date Posted: 18 September 2009 at 4:58pm
Ditto, I am in Wellington too, though my 'baby' is 2 on Tuesday. 
Ooh and I am more a delayer at the moment than a non-vaxing but facing equally similiar attitudes from some people. My 'big' boy is 6, but he is fully vaxed. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: QHX
Date Posted: 22 September 2009 at 1:43pm
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I have a query which will has the potential to incite some heated response. Please know that my asking is not trying to stir the pot or start a riot, I actually want opinion and thought. Is it just me, or does anyone else notice a lot of threads about problems in their babies starting at 6 weeks, the exact same time as the first round of vaccinations? I often wonder why no one ever suggests adverse reactions as a reason for the change in their baby. (Now running to hide behind a rock and await the storm.) |
Posted By: lisa85
Date Posted: 22 September 2009 at 1:50pm
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I think 6 weeks is just an age where a lot of changes take place. Like for instance theres a thread at the moment asking about the possibility of too much sleep at 6 weeks. I had the exact same worry when my girls were around 6 weeks. However I didn't start vaccinating untill 12 weeks. -------------
TTC #3 since Jan 2010 - PCOS MC April 2010 |
Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 22 September 2009 at 1:50pm
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At our antenatal class the lady said often the vaccines are at the same time as developmental changes and that's why so many people think the vaccines are responsible for things like autism, makes you wonder why they don't change the vaccines so they don't coincide with these developmental changes really doesn't it. -------------
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Posted By: ajmmum
Date Posted: 22 September 2009 at 2:22pm
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That would make a bit more sense cuppatea, then they could start to rule vaccination out of a few of the issues... I think that despite any adverse reaction the vaccines cause themselves, that a hit to the immune system by introducing foreign substance into the body is enough to cause issues in itself (did that make sense?)
Combined with growth spurts, developmental changes etc it's hard to isolate the cause of an issue. ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: lisa85
Date Posted: 22 September 2009 at 2:30pm
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I agree. We were never going to vaccinate but when we stopped breastfeeding and decided vaccinating might be best in the end. However I thought 6 weeks seemed far too early so we held off until 12 weeks. I wonder how many parents don't realise they have the power to decide when, if and where their kids get vaccinated. We always stuck close to the dates advised and eventually got them up to date. They had their 15 month jabs at 15 months. -------------
TTC #3 since Jan 2010 - PCOS MC April 2010 |
Posted By: skp
Date Posted: 22 September 2009 at 9:42pm
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Even without exclusive BF we feel it is best to let our DH immune system develop without introducing vaccinations - as put on the IAS website:
Plus some other interesting facts: In a natural dose of childhood illness germs make initial contact with the immune system in the mucous membranes of the nose and throat. When the vaccine is injected directly into the body the immune response is different to that of a natural infection and results at best in waning artificial immunity. Breast milk is the best immune stimulator for your baby during the first year of life, and helps protect against infections, diabetes and some cancers. A high level of antibodies in the blood indicates exposure has occurred but does not signify immunity. A clinical episode of a childhood illness can create lifelong immunity without creating antibodies. Vaccines contain preservatives, other viruses, mercury, aluminium, formaldehyde and detectable particles from animal cells and serum. The polio vaccine is cultured on the kidneys of monkeys and the cells of aborted foetuses. The rubella, chickenpox and hepatitis A vaccines are cultured on the cells of aborted foetuses. The tuberculosis, whooping cough and diphtheria vaccines were introduced after these diseases had declined up to 90%. Scarlet fever declined with no vaccine being introduced. In the 1990/91 outbreak of whooping cough, 63% of the children with whooping cough in the Wellington area who were old enough to be, were "fully" vaccinated. The BCG vaccine is given mainly to Maori and Polynesian infants within a few days of birth, even though studies, including one undertaken by the World Health Organisation, show that people who are vaccinated with the BCG are more likely to get TB than those that are not. In the 1991 USA measles outbreak, over half the deaths were vaccinated, and most deaths were in "immunocompromised" people. In the 1994 Australian measles outbreak, three of the four deaths were vaccinated. There are over 35 organisations worldwide similar to The Immunisation Awareness Society. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: ajmmum
Date Posted: 25 September 2009 at 10:32am
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Bit of a vent...
I opted out of the NIR - didnt want them harassing me for not vaccinating. So I get home yesterday to a letter from the Immunisation Advisory Centre (IMAC) saying they had a referal from NIR requesting they make contact with me, that my imms were now overdue, and that they would come to my house and vaccinate (and do any other kids at the same time). I rang them up and said No, won't be, and don't send me a letter every time they're due because you're killing trees for no reason. It annoyed me, not because they are doing their job as they see it, but that despite opting out of the NIR they still contacted another group and got them to contact me. Do privacy laws not apply here? I don't see why my details (including Aston's NH number) are being sent to Auckland University!  ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 25 September 2009 at 11:05am
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That's crazy. I get a reminder each time the boys are due but I just ring up to make the check up and remind them that I don't vaccinate (they already know when I ring now, I think I just still get sent the standard reminder). I did get a letter about Spencer though, telling me there is a measles out break, like I have been living under a rock and wouldn't have heard about it, and to bring him in cos he is over due. I threw in the bin.
I can't believe they said they would come to your house, how bizaar. Yeah I would find out who they got your details off and kick up a stink cos i don't think that is on at all. Talk about bullying tactics -------------
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 25 September 2009 at 11:05am
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Oh mine have only ever come from my docs, not from anyone else -------------
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Posted By: ajmmum
Date Posted: 25 September 2009 at 11:11am
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yeah if it was my doc then I wouldnt have an issue (although there is no way he would send me any reminders about vaccinations) - it just annoyed me that a govt department handed my details to a third party organisation and it does sound almost like I have no choice in the matter (if I didn't know better)!!
Just damn cheeky!! Feel like ringing up the NIR and screaming "NO means NO" down the phone at them! ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: mumtooboys
Date Posted: 25 September 2009 at 8:22pm
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That's interesting....I have expected 'reminders' now for going on 9 months but haven't had ANY yet which shocks me no end.
Saves me the hassle of telling them to go jump though. hehehehehehehehe Speaking of NIR, is there a way to know if you are on it? I know at the time we signed up for it as we were vaccinating then, but not convinced I actually am on it now. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: kellie
Date Posted: 25 September 2009 at 8:32pm
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You will be on it unless you have actively opted off.
I can't believe they came to your house!! And I thought the nurses we saw were pushy lol. -------------
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Posted By: mumtooboys
Date Posted: 25 September 2009 at 9:00pm
Okay, cheers for that...good thing they have our old address and mail redirection has expired.  ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: skp
Date Posted: 25 September 2009 at 11:25pm
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kmasonz! thats is so wrong on so many levels! God i wonder if we all need to lock our kids up incase someone visits with the vaccines! ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: lilfatty
Date Posted: 26 September 2009 at 8:03am
I dont think real life is an episode of Private Practise ------------- Mummy to Issy (3) and Elias (18 months) I did it .. 41 kgs gone! From flab to fab in under a year  http://www.femininefitness.co.nz/category/blog - LFs weight blog
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Posted By: ajmmum
Date Posted: 26 September 2009 at 10:40am
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Unfortunately it can be - My family doctor told me he was updating tetanus vaccines at the millenium - I told him I wasn't interested, I hadnt needed a tetantus jab in 21 yrs (at the time) and didnt need one then. He actually took the vaccine and put it in my arm as I backed up against the cupboard! The only reason I didnt lay a complaint was because he was a family friend of many many many years.
Have to say, when I rang up the university and said I wasn't interested, they just said "ok then" and didnt put any additional pressure on which was good of them (and rather smart! haha) ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: SBM
Date Posted: 26 September 2009 at 11:50am
Good lord! That's crazy!!! Maybe the vaccine fairies put a curse on you, and you will forever be pressured into getting them when you don't want them!
Note to self: Don't piss off the vaccine fairies! |
Posted By: lilfatty
Date Posted: 26 September 2009 at 11:55am
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Maybe thats why he thought he could get away with it. (the long time family friend part)
When my kids get a jab, they require written consent and they wont even go and get the vaccine out until ive signed the form and they have read every single line too me (just in case I cant read I suppose) so id be amazed if someone would just came to your house and jab your kids without your permission. ------------- Mummy to Issy (3) and Elias (18 months) I did it .. 41 kgs gone! From flab to fab in under a year http://www.femininefitness.co.nz/category/blog - LFs weight blog
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Posted By: ajmmum
Date Posted: 26 September 2009 at 12:55pm
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No the letter didnt say that it would be without my permission - just that they had been contacted by the NIR and asked to contact me, that they would come out and do vaccinations and any other kids at the same time, and any issues to phone them. So I did.
And yes the old doctor, he is very pro-vaccination, which is why Aston doesn't go to him, because I was truly concerned he might "do me a favour" and vaccinate Aston while my back was turned - unfortunately it's not the kind of thing you can undo! & yes, I guess he thought he knew better than me, that perhaps I was just being "silly", and that I wouldnt complain based on our long term relationship. Haha, vaccine fairies - yes, well I guess it does encourage me to think about it and research again at intervals - so far I keep being reassured of my decision not to vaccinate. Even the annoying stuff has a purpose I guess! ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: SBM
Date Posted: 26 September 2009 at 1:09pm
We're moving to Wellies on Tuesday so if something is organised we'd love to come! Or if it's not, let's organise something! |
Posted By: lilfatty
Date Posted: 26 September 2009 at 1:17pm
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Ahhh Ive just figured out who SoyBasedMama is! (cute avatar btw) lol ------------- Mummy to Issy (3) and Elias (18 months) I did it .. 41 kgs gone! From flab to fab in under a year http://www.femininefitness.co.nz/category/blog - LFs weight blog
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Posted By: SBM
Date Posted: 26 September 2009 at 1:35pm
 Haha yeah, felt the need to be slightly more anonymous than I was. I should prob go let the other June mummas know in case they get confused LOL
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Posted By: skp
Date Posted: 26 September 2009 at 10:45pm
I was only kidding
I like the vaccine fairies though! ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 27 December 2009 at 7:31pm
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An interesting site and this bit in particular might be something that you aren't aware of (I personally wasn't aware they used 12+ week babies only). I think if you are questioned again then bringing this up might get the person in question to back down (that sounds horrid, but then how they make the vaccines is horrid and most people are unaware when they spout off, medical professionals included).
(there are no horrid pics or anything like that on this site) http://www.vaccineriskawareness.com/Vaccination-And-Abortion- -------------
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Posted By: ellabellame
Date Posted: 27 December 2009 at 8:07pm
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i just thought i'd pop my head in here, my children are fully vaccinated but i think that was more due to the pressure put on me by the medical system than anything else. my mother is a homeopath who is very against immunisation and she gave me a lot of info against it while at the same time i'm being bombarded by info promoting it, it was really confusing and hard to know who was right and who was wrong. in the end i decided to get them immunised but i did procrastinate in making the decision until 9 weeks for my first and then 12 weeks for my second. even doing that though, i got made to feel like a bad mother by the nurses at the local medical center. i definitely think 6 weeks is just too young to start.
my mum did find a homeopathic remedy for me that can help to negate any side effects that may have been caused by the immunisations so i've used that after every vaccination. well done to you mum's who have stayed strong against all the pressure, standing up for what you believe. ------------- |
Posted By: Emmecat
Date Posted: 28 December 2009 at 9:00am
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Wow I haven't been on here for ages! I'm one of the Mama's who has stayed strong against vaccinating my daughter- and she is healthy, happy and chubba lol SoybasedMama- sorry I"m not sure who you are IRL but would love to catch up for a coffee now you're down this way. Just PM me and I"ll give you my cell etc. I think all us 'alternative' ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: SBM
Date Posted: 28 December 2009 at 12:20pm
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Have PM'ed you Emmecat Any other mums in Wellington??
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Posted By: bebebaby
Date Posted: 28 December 2009 at 1:33pm
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There is some really good links in here. Thanks ladies.
I'm trying to get all my facts, and evidence to back up why we wont be vacinating our baby. I did wonder, someone earlier talked about there baby not having pamol. Is this just to avoid all unnecasary medications? Or is there something more to it? ------------- http://alterna-tickers.com"> 
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Posted By: ellabellame
Date Posted: 28 December 2009 at 1:35pm
i try not to use pamol simply because i've read that paracetamol has been linked to kidney damage. i do sometimes use it though when my kids have high temperatures. ------------- |
Posted By: mumtooboys
Date Posted: 28 December 2009 at 2:07pm
Me,me,me. have PM'd you. LOL ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: mumtooboys
Date Posted: 28 December 2009 at 2:12pm
Hi, Well there are a couple of schools of thought on the whole Pamol thing. As a pp mentioned there are the side effects, some of which aren't very nice but the main one in terms of vaccines is that it can mask an adverse reaction. The other thing is that it actually hasn't been proven to be that effective against fighting a fever for example.....and after much research I have come to realise that the fever is actually the immune system doing its job and by giving Pamol/Nurofen etc you can actually 'short circuit' that response so in the case of vaccine you are possibly making the vaccine LESS effective by treating the fever with Pamol or giving it BEFORE the vaccination. Fevers aren't actually dangerous, it is when the fever rises rapidly that it can be a problem. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: bebebaby
Date Posted: 28 December 2009 at 5:24pm
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Ok. I actually remember reading something about not giving pamol with vaccines at work. I just didn't take much notice. ------------- http://alterna-tickers.com">
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Posted By: Emmecat
Date Posted: 29 December 2009 at 11:17am
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lol mumtooboys and soybasedmama, I have emailed you both with my cell number. Let's hook up in Petone the second week of Jan aye? Mmmmm Cafe Tart or Go Bang coffee for Mama's ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: kellie
Date Posted: 29 December 2009 at 11:27am
This is true, and it also applies to most fevers. People are quite quick to give pamol but unless the fever is dangerously high it is best to hold off. The pamol doesn't fix the problem, it actually stops the bodies natural fighting mechanism, which in turn prolongs the illness, or sometimes makes it worse. -------------
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Posted By: bebebaby
Date Posted: 01 January 2010 at 7:34pm
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What your thoughts on Vitamin K? I'm trying to read up more about this. Initial thoughts are to go with the oral Vit K, but can't find out much about how Vit K is made. Does anyone have any thoughts or information on this.
Thought that you lovely ladies might have researched this, and maybe I could glean info from you.
Thanks ------------- http://alterna-tickers.com">
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 01 January 2010 at 8:03pm
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From what I looked up their isn't really any benefit from doing the oral dose over the injection. The dosage in the jab is nowhere near as high as it used to be.
Basically our decision on it was that if they were high risk for a bleed they would get given the jab, if they had a straightforward delivery they would not. So Spencer did not have the jab, he was a straightforward elective (although he did arrive bum first), the paed checked him and agreed he was fine not to have it. Kyle was a vontouse delivery and had bruising from that along with bruising from having his head rammed into my cervix for so long in the early stages of labour so we gave him the jab (our mw just quickly double checked that that was still the plan before they gave it to him). The reason we chose to not give it unless necessary is that for one we are opposed to giving any medication unnecessarily and secondly from what I read it seems that mother nature has made a big effort to stop baby from getting vit K (is the only one to not cross the placenta) so who I am to think I know better, stands to reason that there is a reason for it. One thing I read, which was an English thing as they are looking at changing away from giving it to all babies, is that if they only did high risk babies they estimate there would be 7 avoidable deaths (i,e babies they thought were low risk that then had an unexpected bleed) and that is out of the 750,000 babies born in the Uk each year -------------
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