Vaccinations???
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Forum Name: First baby? Second or more?
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Topic: Vaccinations???
Posted By: Alianasmummy
Subject: Vaccinations???
Date Posted: 03 August 2008 at 9:09pm
My partner and I have recently opted out of getting our daughter vaccinated as we have found out some pretty scary facts about them, now i am having second thoughts. I just wanted to hear from some other people who decided not to vaccinate and their reasons for doing so. . ------------- http://lilypie.com">  tickers" /></a>
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Replies:
Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 03 August 2008 at 9:27pm
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This has come up on here a few times and I am pretty sure I am the only one who hasn't vaccinated my child, although some have refused some of the vaccines or delayed them.
We read up on the vaccines and what put me off most was the list of ingredients. I also don't like the fact that a genetically modified version of the germ goes into the blood stream which in turn means it goes straight to the brain. I think nature is a beautiful thing and that it is better for him to be exposed to and build up a natural immunity to things. Most of what they vaccinate again are generally not life threatening anyway. I don't believe in jabbing everyone to save a few. Case in point the new pneumoccal (sp?) vaccine, its says on the ad that there are only 150 cases a year and it didn't state how many are fatal so I expect maybe 1 or 2 but they are going to give the vaccine to 100,000s of babies. In my opinion (and that is it all it is before people get upset) I think that is over kill, especially as the small print of the ad is filled with side affects etc. It seems to me they are potentially creating a bigger problem than the one they are trying to solve. Same with the Vit K, in the uk they have done research which shows that if they only gave the vit k jab to high risk babies there would be 7 deaths a year, yet they still just give it to everyone even though there are potential cancer links and it causes jaundice. A good website for support for parents that don't vaccinate is www.ias.org.nz, also it helps to have a gp that understands as well. Our has not been at all pushy about them and supports our decision and that helps a lot. ------------- 
 
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Posted By: emz
Date Posted: 03 August 2008 at 11:04pm
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We did vaccinate Jack and will fully vaccinate him, but just wanted to say if you're having second thoughts maybe go to your GP or nurse and gather info about the vaccines so you can have the full info and decide once and for all for or against. Most sites that have .edu or .ac are ligitimate, be wary of ones that sway either way because that won't help you make up your mind.
Anyway, the main thing is to be comfortable with whatever decision you make and to know that in your opinion, it is the best one you made for YOUR baby. 
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Posted By: Alianasmummy
Date Posted: 04 August 2008 at 7:47am
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Hi, Thanks for your replies.
I thought there wouldnt be many mums on here not vaccinating. But I am surprised at the level of trust everyone puts on our health and saftey board when its been proven, that the MeNZB vaccine was never tested... And i have been told by my doctor that he wouldnt let his child get this new Prevena vaccine! The facts from the US are there for anyone to research. Our doc has been pretty supportive but the reaction from friends and family about our decision has made me doubt it. The book we read, given to me by my midwife, Investigate before you Vaccinate was very indepth about all the vaccines. not just about the ingredients (aluminum being a widely used ingredient) but about how they are grown, ie on human fetal tissue and various animal blood. I dont want to go into it, it freaks me out too much and i dont want to start a fact war. We didnt get vitimin K either, its so highly produced in your breast milk anyway. But thanks Cuppatea, you have helped me remember why we opted out in the first place. I ------------- http://lilypie.com"> tickers" /></a>
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 04 August 2008 at 7:54am
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Yeah my mum had a small freak out when I told her, generally don't tell people unless asked, you know sometimes people ask how he was with having the jabs etc. My mum didn't know until he was 4 months and she had come over for a visit from the uk, can't remember how it even came up. But I responded by asking how many vaccines she had as a child, of course the answer was none, and she and many millions more of baby boomers are still around so she calmed down a bit after that.
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Posted By: Mazzy
Date Posted: 04 August 2008 at 10:58am
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We're thinking of not doing the Prevenar for DD2, we've delayed it so far but the more I delay it the more I realise it's not something I want to do. We are doing the other vaccinations though.
I was sitting on the fence about the MenzB injection for DD1, not sure whether to do it or not. We got it done and now they've pulled it and all this info has come out about it not being very effective for long and I'm so p*ssed off that I didn't listen to my gut and not get it done. This has also influenced me not wanting to get the Prevnar for DD2 as well. It's such a hard decision, but I agree with Emz:
------------- Mum to two gorgeous girls! |
emz wrote:Posted By: busymum
Date Posted: 04 August 2008 at 7:55pm
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If you do stick with your decision to not immunise, your child will mostly be safe anyway because of "community immunity"; that is, most of her friends won't be able to contract or pass along xyz because of their vaccinations.
This was a very hard one for us as well. We also have parents who one set is totally set against and the other is totally for! So that made it very hard and we didn't say anything to them for a long time. We put off vaccinating Hannah - well actually we decided against it - but then continued to research things and a lot of the info against vaccinations was just so out of date that it made us start questioning it all again. In the end we took a list of questions to our GP and he was very patient and answered them all, and then we decided to vaccinate after all. Hannah was 10mos at that stage. Vitamin K - we are also opposed to this but we ended up sortof sitting on the fence about it. If I have a "normal" birth then we skip it. If the birth is somewhat traumatic (like Hannah was a c/s) then we revisit it. One or two of our girls had Vit K. But I think I was woosy and went for the oral - which means they don't get a full dose anyway but I didn't want anyone injecting my just-born baby!! MenzB - I am totally with you on this one. I finally came around for the usual vaccinations, mostly because they have been around (proven) for a very long time. However I am totally appalled at the lack of testing for MenzB and we have not touched it at all. I don't want my kids to get M.disease but I also don't trust the vaccine. -------------  |
Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 04 August 2008 at 9:15pm
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I was the same with the vit K Teresa, if his birth had been a rough one then we would have given it. -------------
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Posted By: Alianasmummy
Date Posted: 05 August 2008 at 7:49am
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I agree with you both about vitamin K, if we needed it we would use it, we were having a homebirth as the closest hospital is 2 hours away and it was accurately predicted that i would have a fast and easy birth. (they said she looked about 7lb but was actually 9lb 2oz!)
Midwives have to have it on them for homebirths in case if hemorrhaging etc. My partner and i have decided to hold off from the vacs, research them more, but ultimately i dont think we will. My son was fully vaccinated, i followed the crowd with him as i was young and didnt know to ask questions. He now has horrible allergies, low immune system and was on antibiotics for the first bit of his life because of reoccurring ear infections. all of which have been proven to be resulted from the vacs. I dont know how true that is but i am suspicious enough now to not want to do it again. Busymum, your right about the community immunity side of things although my doctor warned me that if more people stopped immunizing, which is becoming more popular, this will no longer exist. Its such a big question, but i think i have made the right one for my little Aliana. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> tickers" /></a>
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Posted By: kriss
Date Posted: 05 August 2008 at 2:45pm
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do any of us know what the long term effects of the vaccinations are? they are still relatively new, and like you alianasmummy i am suspicious of the jabs. how do we know what toll they will take on bodies in the mid to distant future?
i feel the same about sunscreen, this generation of children are told to apply these chemicals every day. what will their skin look like after 40 years? 50? its a scary thing ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
http://lilypie.com"> 
Little Angel, April 10
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Posted By: My3Sons
Date Posted: 05 August 2008 at 3:03pm
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cuppatea, thanks for that site! AlianasMummy, Good luck with whatever you decide! ------------- Mum to Mr 10, Mr 6 and Mr 4
 
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Your wee girl looks gorgeous, its so hard trying to decide what is the right decision for our wee ones. My oldest 2 have both been immunised, but my wee Drew who is now 6 months has had none and I am pretty sure he wont be getting any. All I would say is be sure of your decision, lots of people will comment or try and change your mind.Posted By: My3Sons
Date Posted: 05 August 2008 at 3:18pm
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I just remembered I posted a similar thread a wee while back, something about non immunisers, Ill see if I can find it and bump it up for you ------------- Mum to Mr 10, Mr 6 and Mr 4
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Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 05 August 2008 at 3:58pm
I think you will find that most of the vaccines they use now have been around for a very long time and were probably given to us as babies, even the vit k. unlike the menzb which was a relatively new vaccine and only ever intended for short term use. vaccinations are a tricky thing and like someone else said be sure of your reasons and base your decision on facts... ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker"> 
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Posted By: 2bmumof3
Date Posted: 05 August 2008 at 4:13pm
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These kind of threads just remind me that you really need to be comfortable of your decisions at the time cause no matter what we do or don't do gievn 20 odd years it'll all have been wrong i.e sleeping on tummys ------------- Sara Corban (22/11/04) Connor (18/04/06) Chelsea (21/05/08) 
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Posted By: kebakat
Date Posted: 05 August 2008 at 4:19pm
We gave the standard ones that have been around for years, but we delayed the menzb ones. We got a bit of flack for it but as far as I'm concerned, its no ones business but mum, dad and bubs 
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 05 August 2008 at 4:35pm
The vaccines today really can't be compared to those of 30 yrs ago, they are completely different. There was no MMR for instance, and there were no where near as many things that they gave injections for. I remember having the polio on a sugar cube but now I thinks its combined in with the tetanus one. Plus they now use genetically modified strains of the viruses which they didn't even have the technology to produce years ago, so vaccinations might have been around for years but these vaccinations haven't. -------------
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Posted By: emz
Date Posted: 05 August 2008 at 5:30pm
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I guess at the end of the day, you have to rely on other people if you aren't immunised (have to hope they are so they illnesses die out or aren't as common) and if you're happy doing that then that's cool.
We got both MenzB and Prevenar, mainly cos my cousin died of meningitis and my friend's godson died of pneummococcal meninigits. |
Posted By: Alianasmummy
Date Posted: 05 August 2008 at 6:07pm
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Well i know that one of the polio vaccinations that the Government flooded NZ with, had a disease from the Monkey kidney that they grew the vaccine from.they never screened it prior. We all now have the disease SV-40 which causes cancer. it also gets passed on through the generations. This has been widely published and proven, it was their stuff up for not testing.
I also know that they still only randomly screen any new animals for known diseases... So im dubious from the outset. I dont know what the long term effects will be of injecting other animals DNA into our bloodstream will be but they might just need our vaccine free kids in the future. I guess we will see. As you said 2bmumof3 What ever we do now will be wrong at some stage. To Emz its so tragic that you have been hit so closely by Meningitis, I would probably do the same if i was you. But its not relying on others to eradicate the diseases, this will never happen just through immunizations, there would have to be a natural decline too ie. meningitis, its relying on our own bodies and nature to fight it and come out on top. Like everyone says, its your own choice what you decide one should be able to shame you for it. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> tickers" /></a>
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Posted By: busymum
Date Posted: 05 August 2008 at 8:04pm
Isn't that the old polio vaccine? I can't properly remember now but I think that was the old one. What gives you the impression that your son's issues have been caused by vaccinations? Ear infections are hugely common in preschoolers because the tube between their nose and ears is so tiny and susceptible to blocking. That goes for imm/non-imm kids alike. And most allergies are born-with and carried in the genes. ------------- |
Posted By: Alianasmummy
Date Posted: 05 August 2008 at 9:05pm
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In the book "Investigate before you Vaccinate" it mentioned that some of the side affects of certain vaccinations are reoccurring ear infections and some have been proven to lower your immune system not boost it.
There are a number of factors that could have caused my sons allergies, but there are no food allergies in my or his fathers families so it has started from an outside cause. I am just suspicious of the vaccinations thats all. The infected polio vaccine was definitely taken off the schedule however the standards of testing have remained the same. The US authorities recently tested a batch of eggs that were growing the MMR vaccine and a large percentage were infected with diseases. These would have gone into circulation. I want to know why they dont test them BEFORE starting so theres no chance of infection. Also scientists can only test for known diseases, what kind of new bugs are getting through?? I really didnt want to start a fact war, i know there are very strong cases for and against and i definitely understand why others get the vaccinations, the benefits can outweigh the risks and worry.
I was really just wanting to hear some stories from other parents that have opted out, and their reasons for doing so. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> tickers" /></a>
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Posted By: emz
Date Posted: 05 August 2008 at 10:33pm
| Just for my own curiosity Alianasmummy, who writes/publishes that book? |
Posted By: Maya
Date Posted: 05 August 2008 at 10:39pm
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I'm not getting into a fact war either, but the new Prevenar vaccine has actually been proven to reduce the incidence of ear infections in susceptible infants/children as it immunises against pneumoccocae which is one of three most common bacteria which cause ear infections. ENT specialists have long recommended that parents of children with ongoing ear problems pay for the Prevenar vaccine as it wasn't available on the national schedule. ------------- Maya Grace (28/02/03)
 (02/01/06)
The Gremlins:Sienna Marie & Mercedes Kailah (14/10/06)
Lil miss:Chiara Louise Chloe (09/07/08)
Her ladyship:Rosalia Sophie Anais (18/06/12)
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Posted By: Genie
Date Posted: 05 August 2008 at 11:15pm
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In my experience its always hard not to start a "fact war" when discussing the immunisation subject, its such a controvercial issue. I just try to remember that everyone really only tries to make the best decision for their child with the information they have.
After a lot of reading and researching, we decided not to vaccinate our children (now 11 and 7), pretty much for all the reasons already outlined in this thread - the ingredients and the fact they contain "animal bits", the lack of convincing proof that they really do work without some sort of long-term effects. I don't think I'm relying on people who do vaccinate for our children's health as I don't believe the vaccines are solely responsible for the decline in the illnesses anyway. There are so many aspects to the decision we have made and we do not regret our decision, though we have been repeatedly questioned about it. I've found though that medical professionals respect our decision once they realise that we made an informed choice not to vaccinate. ------------- 
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Posted By: Alianasmummy
Date Posted: 06 August 2008 at 7:58am
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I had given back the book to my midwife but looking on the web there is a website www.ias.org.nz The book is written by Susan K Calridge. It has been screened by a doctor and a lot of doctors and scientists backing the information gathered and even some high-ups in WHO.
Thanks Genie. Its good to know there are more people out there with the same point of view. My doctor respected my decision too but he sure grilled me about it. Its so backwards! 
Our playcentre was really good, surprisingly there were quite a few other mums that were the same, the only thing they do is ask you to stay home if whooping cough or something else is going around. i think i would stay home anyway, vaccinated or not! I was advised by my doctor not to get the Prevena injection as we are not in the at risk group. It has some scary statistics from the US and we dont want them repeated here. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> tickers" /></a>
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 06 August 2008 at 8:16am
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Just out of interest was Xavier born via c section? We have no allergies in either of our families but Spencer is allergic to diary, eggs and peanuts as well as some other things we think he is allergic too, like parsnips that they couldn't test for. We saw an allergy doc a couple of months ago and apparently being born by c/s increases the chance of allergies cos they aren't exposed to the right bacteria at the birth (vaginal births they ingest some of mums poo and the bacteria in that sets up there guts against allergies, he explained it far better than I ever could).
Also the relying on other people vaccinated their children comment. This could not be further from the truth, like Genie said there are lots of other reasons why the disease rate has fallen, Scarlet fever has shown the same decline as the other diseases even though it isn't immunised against, education, better nutrician and living conditions are far bigger contributors than the injections which don't give immunity anyway (they are just designed so that childrens immune system should recognise and fight off quicker, doesn't mean they won't get it). As I also said in one of my posts I want Spencer to build a natural immunity, that is contradictory to relying on other people immunising. Our philosophy is that we believe children should be exposed to and build a natural immunity, in no way what so ever are we relying on herd immunity. I respect any parent that makes the decision to immunise their children and I would never and have never told anyone that they shouldn't, so please do not make incorrect assumption about why I haven't immunised my child. -------------
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Posted By: Alianasmummy
Date Posted: 06 August 2008 at 8:40am
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Yay go cuppatea! And no Xavier was born vaginally with no drugs. I was on antibiotics though when he was 4 days (couldnt stand being at home so i went for a walk, not the best idea when you have stitches ) But the allergy specialist didnt see why that would have done anything.
My Aunty is head of Emergency at a hospital in England and she mentioned Almond oil.. It has been linked with peanut allergies and English specialists recommend not using it on newborns. I was told by my midwife and plunket to use it on my sons skin and bath. It could be a combination off all the factors. Whatever it was he is now anaphylactic to peanuts and egg whites and we have to have an epipen where ever we go. Luckily i have been super vigilant and we have now been 2 years without using it! He will be tested again in Jan so fingers crossed ------------- http://lilypie.com"> tickers" /></a>
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 06 August 2008 at 9:38am
Our allergy doc gave us a probiotic to give Spencer, lots of research has been done to show how much they can help with allergy kids, might be something to ask about in Jan if he isn't on something like that already. Spencers is just in powder form so I mix it in his porridge and he is none the wiser and as it was from the allergy doc its diary, egg free etc. Was pricey though $45 for one jar -------------
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Posted By: Alianasmummy
Date Posted: 06 August 2008 at 10:01am
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Yea, Xavy has been taking it for ages, when i remember. Another good one is bee pollen. As long as they arnt allergic!! Its really just to boost their immune and digestive systems which is always good
Xavier seems to be getting better, and just the 1 cold all winter due to all the immune boosters ive been giving him. touch wood. 
Dairy is a tough one, i did the self diagnosis for a bit (so not what to do) and took him off dairy and wheat. I was actually relieved when i found out it was egg and nuts! It was virtually impossible. i got a good cook book though, Friendly food, that helped. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> tickers" /></a>
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 06 August 2008 at 10:34am
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We were quite lucky with the diary one in that he had a reaction when I weaned him onto formula at 3 1/2 months so before solids. I was paranoid about all other foods so the egg and peanuts just came up on his allergy test at 12 months, so glad I was paranoid about it. We kept him completely off soy until he was tested as well, so glad he was negative to that as it has made live a lot easier, cos if things don't have diary in they tend to have soy and it means now he can have tofu and soy yoghurt and other bits and pieces. -------------
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Posted By: emz
Date Posted: 06 August 2008 at 3:03pm
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Sorry cuppatea, I just reread my post and didn't word it very well. I was trying to get across the point of that it is proven that deaths from diseases on the immunisation schedules has reduced due to the abilities of said immunised children to fight the diseases off before its too late.
So I'm very sorry if I offended you, I completely respect your decision, although I'm sure you're aware I don't understand it (as you may not understand ours, and I feel both ways is OK).
Thanks for the info on the book, I *think* I may have read it from my doc already. |