Vit K
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Topic: Vit K
Posted By: ElfsMum
Subject: Vit K
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 2:56pm
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For the last few days I have been doing research about giving bubs Vitamin K. I don't want to start an arguement or debate or anything I just wanted to know how many of you chose or chose not to give your babies Vit K.
Have so far seen about a 5-10 percent increased risk in leukemia rates in those who had it.. but this was in once study out of 5.. so I 'm still thinking about the shot and reasons for and against.(have several thoughts for an against but just wanted experienced people's opinions.. ------------- Mum to two amazing boys! |
Replies:
Posted By: Maya
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 2:59pm
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We did it with all three and will do again with iggle piggle. I saw no reason not to, both Maya and Sienna were born after long pushing stages which increases the risk of haemorrage and Mercedes was at increased risk simply because she was twin 2 and birth is riskier for the second twin. -------------  Maya Grace (28/02/03)
 (02/01/06)
The Gremlins:Sienna Marie & Mercedes Kailah (14/10/06)
Lil miss:Chiara Louise Chloe (09/07/08)
Her ladyship:Rosalia Sophie Anais (18/06/12)
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Posted By: peanut butter
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 3:01pm
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Hi kawwwww, I was the same as you with regards to should I/ shouldnt I. As it was Tom was born with a ventouse delivery and had the shot anyway. To be honest I didnt even know it had happened as so much else was going on. It was the last thing on my mind as they took the wee guy to NICU. I made so many big decisions really fast (and easily) because I had to. I had no regrets and was amazed at how easy those decisions were when push comes to shove. Tom had a lumbar puncture at 3 days!!!
One thing that made vit k sit easier in my mind was the fact that we would have had it as a child and we seem ok. |
Posted By: ElfsMum
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 3:01pm
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yeah obviously under risky circumstances i definitely would..and I'm pretty likely to decide to get it done anyway just the increased cancer thing really got to me .. ?
i didnt realise babies had so many injections...poor things:) ------------- Mum to two amazing boys! |
Posted By: ElfsMum
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 3:02pm
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good point nzpiper.. i guess its just one thing i knew nothing about and thought i had better look into..its so hard to find unbiased research about anything these days.. :( !!! ------------- Mum to two amazing boys! |
Posted By: peanut butter
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 3:03pm
| Tom slept threw heaps of blood tests etc. I think after squeezing themsleves out a tiny whole (gotta be a little uncomfy for them as well I imagine) a lttle prick is nothing. |
Posted By: emz
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 3:04pm
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I guess it depends on the studies you read and how legitimate they actually are. You'll get told a lot of info about it at AN classes. Basically if you don't give it to your baby, it has an increased risk of haemorraging because it doesn't have the Vit K to assist with the clotting factor. That sounds worse to me that a slim (and possibly not even as high as what you said as you then said about it only being in 1 study) chance of leukemia. You can also give it to bubs through injection or pills, but the injection is easier and has a better success rate.
I haven't even thought twice about not giving it to our baby, I wouldn't want to have to worry every time he gets a bump or bruise about if his blood will clot properly. Just my opinion though, DH and I are human pincushions so it was really a no-brainer for us with immunisations and injections etc (my DH is even immunised against rabees so go figure!  )
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Posted By: emz
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 3:07pm
| Oh and just to let you know that most medical professionals would not even mention an increased risk of leukemia to you as it wouldn't be conclusive so I would stick to their advice rather than your own research as it's probably propped up by better research than what we can find ourselves. |
Posted By: ElfsMum
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 3:10pm
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nzpiper...good point:) easier than when they are bigger and know what to expect when they get shots..:(
i assumed they would have spoken to us about it during the labour class..last week..but we still have four to go so maybe they will then.. yeah the risk is 1 in 60-250 my mw thing said (read yesterday while i was there) and 1 /10,000 have a major problem.. they do get it themselves through breast milk but its much harder to do and they do eventually store it i think?(correct me if wrong) .. I'm not going into the immunisation debate its raging fiercely on the American site i go to.. boy if you said it was a no-brainer over there they'd go nuts..lol.. I'm 99% sure we will do it..i just wanted to know others thoughts on it .. as for immunisations I've been a teacher for years and totally agree with them(though i did try to get immunised against hep A and B and it didn't work even though i paid for 4 shots(apparently 8% of the population just dont get immune..lucky me:) ) My DH a carpenter so he's had like a million shots esp tetnus(sp?) :) ------------- Mum to two amazing boys! |
Posted By: ElfsMum
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 3:10pm
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all of my research so far has been from medical people..:) ------------- Mum to two amazing boys! |
Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 3:14pm
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Hey Kawww. We chose not to give it to Spencer and I will explain a bit our reasons and also that we didn't make the final decision until the birth.
The research about leukemia is a bit sketchy, from what I found one study found a link then another didn't and then one found a link to child hood cancers but not specifically leukemia, but my general view of the research is that there needs to be more before it is conclusive. We found that the placenta actually doesn't pass Vit K to the baby (hence the reason they are born deficient) many docs believe this is because vit k inhibits brain development and that is why it is not passed to baby. Vit K is passed in breastmilk so baby will get it. The injection is extremely high dose and contains other crap which quite frankly I didn't want put in my baby. A study in Britain found that if they only gave the injection to high risk babies rather than all babies there would be 7 preventable deaths per year out of hundreds of thousands of babies born, so it is insignificant (statistic wise). The uk are actually looking at stopping mandatory injections. The Vit K injection causes jaundice as well. Ok. In some instances there is a very good reason for giving the jab, i.e traumatic births, those involving vontuesse (sp?) or forceps, some emergency c/s. So I am not for one minute saying that babies should never be given it. We told the m/w who oversaw my c/s that we did not want the Vit K unless the paed thought that there was cause to give it, in which case the paed would have to come and discuss those reasons with myself (if able) and DH at which point we would decide whether we thought it was reason enough to change our minds. His birth went without any problems and he had no bruising etc and the paed was happy not to give the jab. Now if you decide not too, expect to have to state it at least 20 times, expect some people to look at you strangely and speak to you slowly like you are mental.......Vit K is informed consent and you have a right to say no, so don't let them rail road you if that is what you choose. Make sure it is written on all of your notes and that everyone knows that you don't want it. Also if you choose not to do it, you have been on antibiotics as was I and that effects your Vit K production (is produced in the gut and antibiotics would have killed the good stuff that you need). So speak to a health shop, I took probiotics and alfafa to make sure that my Vit K levels were good and that he would get if via my breastmilk. Ok I think thats it, good luck.........all these decisions are so bloody hard. ------------- 
 
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Posted By: NovemberMum
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 3:16pm
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my husband and I discussed this and we said no to Vitamin K unless I had a really short labour or needed and assisted birth.
both of which happened ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 3:18pm
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Kawww there is less in breastmilk but it is all absorbed where as the shot isn't which is why they ram so much into bubs at once.
Natures knows best if you ask me, but then we didn't immunise either and that's a whole other thread....hehehe -------------
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Posted By: emz
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 3:33pm
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It does come through in breastmilk, but it takes a lot longer to build up the supply, in which time your baby *could* haemorrage if they had a tendency which the Vit K would have stopped. But having said that, it is definitely a personal choice.
I have to disagree with you about the jaundice thing though cuppatea - Vit K doesn't cause jaundice, it CAN cause jaundice, like most things. But something like 50-80% of babies have jaundice and are easily fixed up so it's no biggy. (Hehe can you tell I was a mello-yello baby? Only 1 day in an incubator for me and I was good as new!) |
Posted By: ElfsMum
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 3:36pm
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lol about the immunisation thing:) (yes it is another thread) nature does know best(generally) but don't get me started on the immunisation thing again:)
yeah it said in the research about how you have to feed a specific way for him to get enough vit K etc.. but yes if i decided not to do it I would be finding out exactly what i had to do.. i think it said something about supplements while I am feeding.. yeah its just so hard to find research that isn't one way or the other.. just stated facts in a pamphlet would be great!!!:) yeah there are lots of decisions aren't there!!! ------------- Mum to two amazing boys! |
Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 3:37pm
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Yes Spencer was in the billibed too and he didn't have the jab, so I'm aware that it can be caused by other things too. Many docs believe that they are not suppose to have Vit K till the breastmilk comes in because it inhibits brain development. Mother nature has made a big effort to stop the baby getting it until the breastmilk comes in, there has to be a good reason for that!
The chances of a bleed happening in a low risk baby are miniscule, even lower than the link to cancer, so why risk a link to cancer for a bleed that is less likely to occur? -------------
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Posted By: ElfsMum
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 3:39pm
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yeah i can see that point as well... i was concerned as to why it is the only vitamin that doesn't go to baby through the placenta.. ------------- Mum to two amazing boys! |
Posted By: aimeejoy
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 3:45pm
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We did it. Mainly because it is a 45 minute drive to the nearest big hospital so if anything were to happen in those first few days, its a long way from help for us. ------------- Aimee Hannah 22/10/05 Greer 11/02/08 |
Posted By: emz
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 3:51pm
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At the end of the day Kawww, I guess you need to weigh up the risks and benefits for you personally. If Vit K inhibited brain development, there would be a lot of morons walking around. I had it and I think I'm quite intelligent
If the cancer risk really bothers you, then don't go for it. But I guess then you should be ruling out coke, oranges, sun, chewing gum etc as well as they all have a 'link' from some research that says they cause cancer. So the main things I guess to worry about would be: -do you think your child would have his/her brain development lessened because of this? If so, why do they advocate it? If you're worried about it, you could opt for the oral method which isn't as effective but would let you feel OK about brain development. -if you have a family history of cancers in young people, that may sway your decision too. I do wonder about this one though, because surely if Vit K can give your child cancer, the risk is there whether you give the injection or not if your breastfeeding. And then like MeganGrace said above, maybe if you are still undecided, you could put something in your birth plan about only giving the injection in certain circumstances. I just remember that while mother nature is a wonderful thing, there's a reason why they give this injection and have done for many years (as the number of children being haemophiliacs (sp?) and having other issues with clotting was quite high) |
Posted By: ElfsMum
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 3:53pm
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yes i do understand that:) ..see i didn't want to start a debate:) thanks for the input guys.. it's one of those things i guess isn't it:) ------------- Mum to two amazing boys! |
Posted By: BellaBoo
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 3:57pm
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Ah the old VitK debate. I covered this in one of the papers I did at uni and all the information I read has made me decide that yes my baby will receive Vit K by injection. ------------- http://lilypie.com">   http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 3:57pm
Deleted cos I was debating.....sorry Kawww -------------
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Posted By: emz
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 4:02pm
Ok, so clearly I can't put my point across without being insulted, that's just a bit too harsh cuppatea. Have I insulted your intelligence simply because I choose to give my child something that you don't like? Ouch  Like I said, it's a personal choice. But anyway, thanks for basically calling everyone who's ever had the jab dumb.
Shame I saw the post first though wasn't it? |
cuppatea wrote:Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 4:03pm
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I had the jab too, and I deleted my post cos I had took it too far. I'm sorry that I hurt your feelings -------------
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Posted By: kebakat
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 4:03pm
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I haven't read any of the replies to this but my 2 cents is below:
We really had no choice when it came to Vit K. DH's mum has a slight bleeding problem (she doesn't clot very easily) and BIL has Christmas disease, which is a bleeding disorder (for example he couldn't get his tonsils taken out because of the risk of him bleeding to death) so with that in mind it was a no brainer for us to give Daniel Vit K. But even if those factors weren't there I think we would have done it anyway. |
Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 4:05pm
That is taken slightly out of context cos it actually read "and me and a whole generation" so was not specifically aimed at emz. Although like I said I apologize for getting too heated about it and for causing and hurt. -------------
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Posted By: BellaBoo
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 4:13pm
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I have to say that I too was a little offended by your post Cuppatea.
This topic is always going to cause a debate which isnt a bad thing as those who dont know much about it can see both sides. Whatever anyone decides it is ultimately up to them and no one else. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 4:15pm
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we didnt give the vit k injection.
It is given to prevent HDN - Haemorrhagic disease of the newborn - a coagulation disturbance in newborns due to vitamin K deficiency. Newborns are relatively vitamin K deficient for a variety of reasons. They have low vitamin K stores at birth, vitamin K passes the placenta poorly, the levels of vitamin K in breast milk are low and the gut flora has not yet been developed (vitamin K is normally produced by bacteria in the intestines). I would say that nature gets it right too and there may be a reason babies arent born with high vit K... and just becuase something has been done for years - since we were babies - doesnt mean it is for the best. It doesnt have any effect on kids who are older and in fact a dr told us when gabriel was only a week old that wether we gave it or not didnt matter by then anyway! Vit K is found is some leafy green stuff like lettuce, is high in green tea and strawberries are also a good source of Vit K. ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker"> 
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 4:16pm
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Yes I'm very sorry that is why I deleted. I'm sorry to anyone who read it before I deleted it and I'm sorry if I offended or hurt anyones feelings.
I can assure you I am feeling very stink about it. -------------
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Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 4:19pm
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oh and the fact that it is a deep muscle injection put me off a little too. as if the trauma of birth wasnt bad enough i didnt want my little darlings being stabbed too. ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker">
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Posted By: ElfsMum
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 4:37pm
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GandT ...yes I see that point too..i didnt realise all the jabs and prods they go through in the first few months:( ------------- Mum to two amazing boys! |
Posted By: Lisha
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 4:50pm
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We gave it to Lucy and going to again with this baby. I haven't done much reading, but thought why not! ------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: kabe
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 5:44pm
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Haven't read all the previous posts, but our baby got the injection at birth. Seemed more straight forward that going for the oral option. ------------- http://alterna-tickers.com"> 
http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: caitlynsmygirl
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 6:30pm
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I gave c the injection (well actually i didnt, the doctor did haha), that was 5 years ago, and shes fine, never had any problems (touch wood)
it really is one of those personal things that is up to the individual-like a lot of matters in parenthood, eg, to work or not to work, to bf or formular feed etc etc , just do what you feel is right for you 
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Posted By: peanut butter
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 6:31pm
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Although I agree that mother nature does do a pretty good job, she doesnt always get it right and maybe in the past a lot of babies died from haemorrhage...just like mothers used to die giving childbirth.
It is a hard one to weigh up as there is so much bad stuff around these days that parenting is getting difficult. Which toy can my child play with that hasnt got lead in it etc. Go with what feels right. All you can do is trust your gut and take into account the current line of thinking. As far as I am aware, the study that linked it to leukemia was done in one small study of a single population in a single town next to a nuclear power plant or something and the study has never been repeated. That is something I wouldnt take too much from. You WILL make the right decision and you have plenty more to come.
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Posted By: mummy_becks
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 6:39pm
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Both my boys got the jab. My feeling was better to be safe than sorry with bleeding as I have bruising issues. ------------- I was a puree feeder, forward facing, cot sleeping, pram pushing kind of Mum... and my kids survived! |
Posted By: monster
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 7:57pm
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After a fair bit of reading, we went with nature probably getting it right, but were prepared to give it if the birth put him at a higher risk. It turned out the birth was straight forward and he was even born in his membranes, therefore nicely cushioned and not bruised. So we didn't give it. Our midwife knew how we felt and we were never questioned about our decision by anyone. -------------   
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Posted By: busymum
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 7:59pm
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Ok haven't read all the replies. Basically we decided not to do vit k unless there were exceptional circumstances. So in the end 2 of them got it haha. The mw was really good about our decision and talked us through the stage of highly recommending it so that we could understand. Basically one was cause of c/s and the other was cause of strep B. ------------- |
Posted By: ElfsMum
Date Posted: 29 November 2007 at 8:39am
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i have strep b...so does that mean i definitely will need to give it? ------------- Mum to two amazing boys! |
Posted By: lizzle
Date Posted: 29 November 2007 at 8:52am
| My midwife said that she would tell us after each baby was born if she recommended it or not. Jake had a cone head and bruising, so he got it, and when i had Taine i ended up with a different/vague/weird midwife who I have no idea if she gave it to him at all. |
Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 29 November 2007 at 9:05am
i have never heard that having strep B would warrant the vit K... i had it with gabriel and he didnt get vit K and i was never told i should have it cause i had strep B. ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker">
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Posted By: ElfsMum
Date Posted: 29 November 2007 at 9:07am
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cool..thanks..i will talk to midwife in depth about it next time i see her.. ------------- Mum to two amazing boys! |
Posted By: ElfsMum
Date Posted: 29 November 2007 at 11:54am
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yeah i get the idea people are either for it or against it..its one of those things that people have set views on:) we talked about it and will be getting it ------------- Mum to two amazing boys! |