Ok, so I have been wrestling with a friend over a certain situation. We are as you know, TTC #1. We are in a fairly low income bracket, and my friend thinks we are being irresponsible having a child when we are in so much debt.

I feel personally that as we have been able to get our cot, baby bath, and other such paraphernalia from family and friends (still in good nick) and have been slowly gathering clothes and things, not to mention my craft skills. I have been knitting up a storm, and have had to give most of it away as I have been bed ridden and bored, so knitting all day and had more than I'l ever need!

So, what is your view? Is it irresponsible of us to have a child when we have money trouble? Or are we doing it responsibly (in my opinion) by shopping around for bargains and getting things second hand. Plus the fact that I am a seamstress and can make anything under the sun, and already have a massive fabric and wool collection so I'm not forking out for materials.

I spent 5yrs as a nanny, so I know what is really essential for bubs, and what is just a gimmick or not really essential. And we have most of those now. We already have a cot with mattress and 2x sets sheets and blankets plus bumper, baby bath, changing table, baby gym, plenty of clothes and booties from birth to 9mos. Bottles (intend to breastfeed) bibs, play rug, toys, rattles, and wall hangings for the nursery. Plus heaps of others that I'm sure I've forgotten. Not to mention that the grandparents are itching to pay for the big ticket items so we are covered there.

I dunno, I would love to tell this friend to just please keep her comments to herself, and just support us for what we are choosing in our life. I am happy with our decision, but just wanted OBer opinions.

So bring it on, I've got a thick skin, and I would love to know what you think.

Wow, what a response!

Well, this might be putting the cat amongst the pidgeons, but what would you constitute as bludging off of the government? I am on a permanent invalids benefit, as is DF, which by the very name offends me. I hate that it inferrs that I am an 'invalid' and therefore rather useless in the grand scheme of things. When we do finally have our wee bundle in our arms, we won't be claiming for anything more, and have worked out our budget as it is, and can afford all that we will need. (nappies, clothing items, formula if needed, any medical that isn't covered etc) and we can manage our debt with this as well.

I often get a pang of guilt when I hear of people who are struggling on measly WINZ benefits, and here we are getting what I would call a comfortable ammount. But then again maybe I have just learnt to budget well and use what I've got wisely. We neither of us can work full time, but at the same time we are more than capable to care for a child. Tricky to explain. I did have a business that I ran full time, and lived off of the profits, but it got the better of me. I do fully plan to go back to it, and with DF's support this time round I think we will do well. I intend to get off of the benefit Im on and get out there, but will probably be a SAHM for the first few years, until I'm sure I can cope.

Sorry its a bit longwinded, but I felt I needed to explain our situation. The debt we have is a bank loan and a student loan, and all of our debt will be paid off in full by 2010. Which is only 2yrs away... So not that bad in my eyes. And besides, at the rate we are going, it will take us that long to get pregnant! Please dear god, let us have a baby before then!

Thanks ladies, your point of view is always appreciated, and I think I will start paying a little less heed to this friend, I know she means well, but until she walks a mile in our shoes, she can't really judge.

Many thanks.

It sounds daft, but I have actually tried to get back into employment, but no-one will hire me! I have at least 12 rejection letters in a folder in my office for jobs that were so low in pay that we would actually be making less than on the invalids benefit. Plus there is the fact that my specialist who has to sign off on any employment I would have, isn't comfortable to do it. We have just got my health to the point where we have a balance of medication, physio and other treatments that works for me.

I know that we are both capable to care for a child as we have both had nannying jobs in the past (and yes, have applied for a few of those lately, but alas my disability puts people off) and have had a new born from birth to 4mos due to his Mum being not well enough to care for him. We know all too well how hard it is, but we are up for it. DF is in the same boat where it comes to the specialist signing off, his migraines although becoming less and less, are still enormous when they do hit, to the point where he needs morphine to cope sometimes. Thankfully they are becoming less frequent with medication. So yeah, its not just up to us when it comes to work.

As for the business, I ran it while nannying, and also while we had the 4mos old baby, so I know I can do it simultaneously. And since it is a business run on what I make with all my various crafts, it isn't really something that DF could do, although he could very well take care of the accounting side of things etc. While I made the various things at home. We want to eventually open a retail Teddy bear store, which actually has a very wide market, and I think will do quite well. All of the enthusiasts I have spoken to at trade shows have been very positive with their feedback and have indeed said they would be happy to supply stock as well as shop there. So thats encouraging. I feel that if no-one else will hire me then why not hire myself? I haven't opened the store before now as I wanted to get our debt paid off, and have had other goals like getting my aircraft pilots licence, learning competiive horse riding, and then university this year. But, by 2010 we will be in a position to do it, and until then we are just slowly gathering stock, and working out our suppliers etc. So its all full steam ahead, and we have a plan, which feels good.

I know it must sound like we are too unhealthy to care for a child, but really we are at the mercy of our specialists, and strangely enough my specialist was over the moon when we broached the subject of TTC. Which he was happy for us to go ahead with.

We have a great support network, and while I'm not going to rely heavily on family stepping in if I get sick, it is good to know they will be there for this part of our life journey.

Oh, and I also wanted to add that we have started a savings account for the baby, so we will have a backstop for any costs that can and will arise. We always make sure that even a small amount goes in each week.

So yeah, not trying to make excuses, just thought that the whole story would make it a bit easier to understand. I acknowledge that there will still be some people that think what we are doing is wrong, but to be honest, if we waited until we were financially better off, it would be years down the track and there would be the chance that we would decide not to have a child, since it has been a very long 16mos of trying, especially with DF's infertility problems. Who knows how long it will take.

Ok so sorry for another longwinded post, now you know pretty much everything there is to know about me! Happy days and babydust to all! Have to say that we could certainly do with some!

Thank you James, that does make me feel better, I know that from the outside our situation looks bad,but from the inside I have to say I'm the happiest I've ever been in my life, and can't wait until we have a little one to complete our lives. I know that we will both be good parents, and we have no lack of loving family by our sides. Good on you for looking to the future and making plans, I don't know where I'd be if I hadn't sat down and looked at my life and asked what I wanted from it. And now I'm almost there. Just have to get this babydust to work.... Hmmmm....We'll get there I know, just seems to be taking so long.

Thank you ladies, I appreciate your comments whatever your view, it has helped me see it from both sides of the fence, as it were.

Thanks ladies, I guess as its around AF time, I've been feeling a bit more emotional at the moment, and it just hit a bigger nerve than it would have normally. Man I just bit DF's head off just now, and I'm about to go and apologise, as although I felt like I was sooo in the right, I'm sure if I was a little less hormonal I would have seen it differently. I suppose its a bit of frustration too, in that we have been trying for so long, and in a couple of days the old witch will be back and it will mean no baby this month. Which I have to say, despite my usual positive bubbly outlook, really blows. I mean, really really BLOWS. All I have ever wanted was to be a mother, and now it seems as if that will never happen. Like it feels like it actually won't happen, and if I am really honest with myself that as much as I want it, it won't happen. I don't usually have this lack of confidence in our chances, but this month seems to be a particularly hormonal one, and I can only imagine that I'm gona have some wicked AF pains this time. Oh joy.

I know that by the end of the week it will have all but passed, and I'll be wondering what exactly I was feeling low about. So I suppose next month is another chance, and what with our both being healthy and DF taking his vitamins, quit smoking and hot baths, we are in for as good a chance as we are going to get.

Thanks ladies for all of your comments, I fully understand that I asked for your opinion, and was ready for all the possibilities. Its good to know what the general consensus feel, and that I can say 'thank you for worrying about us, but we will be just fine" to my well meaning friend.

Oh, and it would seem that i forgot to mention it above, but I guess if I look on the bright side, AF showing up on time means things are back in their usual rhythm. Rather than the higgledy piggledy all over the place that it has been for the past two cycles.

Thank you Mum2sam, I wholeheartedly agree! We often find money in the strangest of ways, but I am positive that as long as we love them and nourish them, that is all that will matter. Oh, and I had to say, your bub is GORGY! What a beautiful wee girl!

We are certain that we want a baby as soon as possible, so we are just going to be determined to keep trying, its all we can do.

We have considered adoption, and have decided to keep ttc until we are 25-26yrs old and then perhaps apply. I the meantime I will keep on with my business, which although we dont have a retail premises at the moment, it is still running. I have been focusing on my babies and childrens label, and my artist bear label part of the time. Its something I really enjoy doing, and with all the new babies in the family at the moment, we have no shortage of models!

Emz I'm pretty much in the same position, I have been advised to have our child(ren) by my mid 20's, as they will be taking out all the girly bits once I'm finished with them (due to prolapse etc) so while my health is good at the moment, and I am fully able to have our baby now, I really dont know what will happen in the future. Yes, we are both young in most peoples eyes, (I'm 21 and DF is 20) but we have also faced more than our fair share of hardship in our lives, which has made us mature beyond our years. I ahve no doubt about my ability to carry and care for our child, but if by our mid 20's we have not yet concieved our child, then we will look at other avenues, as it is already a heartbreaking process seeing that bfn every cycle, so in another 4-5yrs, I have no doubt that it would be even more difficult than it is presently.

So, yes we are ttc valiantly, but as each cycle goes by, it is looking more and more like we will end up adopting. Having said this, Im due for AF today, and while I haven't tested, neither do I have any AF signs coming on. So, either Im pg (please) or my cycles are still a little up the whop. So will test in the next few days, and keep you posted.

Yep you can get the sickness/invalids benefit for being an alcoholic, as it is seen as an 'illness' moreso than an 'addiction'. Im really against it, and the rules state that they must be actively seeking treatment. But that doesn't mean they follow it up that well, and I have heard of rare cases where the alcoholic in question has used the line 'the treatment I have chosen to pursue is a maintenence program, where I use alcohol to maintain the level of it in my body, but Im not drunk and it is under control'. Bollocks if you ask me, and I just can't see how they allow it, when although my disability will NEVER go away or get better, and they make my doctor fill out copious forms every 12mos to prove I still suffer from the same NEURAL TUBE DEFECT - NOT CURABLE disorder, that I had last year... Believe you me, if my amputated leg grows back, and my missing vertebrae grow, and my CRPS (Complex Regional Pain Symdrome - only reported case in NZ, ah special) magically disappears, SHOW ME THE WORKPLACE! I AM SOOOOO THERE BABY! But alas, that hasn't happened.

Fattartsrock, I totally understand your point, DF had a very impoverished upbringing, one of 9children (was 10, but one of a twin died in infancy) and a single Mum, so not a lot to go around. Was never taken to a doctor (had awful burns to his back and wasn't taken to a doctor for 10days after the injury, NOT ON) and always had hand-me-downs that were used by 2-3 kids previously. Alot of food bank food, and virtually never had a phone. Alot of dependency on WINZ etc, I certainly don't agree with some of her parenting methods, but she has always accepted me as her future daughter in law, and I have to admit she has raised some pretty awesome kids despite the sometimes obvious neglect.

I'm quite clued up on medical knowledge, so believe me, if any of our kids ever need to see a doctor, it will be done. We don't owe anything to our docs as it is, and we have allowed in our budget for any eventuality. We have really thought about this.

Thanks for everyones comments, means alot that you are willing to share with everyone! Ah well, I'm fully happy that we are making the right choice for us, and can't wait til we are FINALLY pg! Still no sign of darling AF, so who knows!

Oh, and thought I'd add that I'm currently considering training to be either a nurse, or ultimately a midwife, as we have a drastic shortage of both at the moment, and it is a job I could work around my health. Plus with nursing it opens the way for a career in Needs Assessment work and District Nursing etc. Would love the midwifery tho, that would be the ultimate, another career that I could work around being pg and my health.

So yeah, planning ahead, and full steam ahead!

Aw shucks you guys! Thank you, have been feeling so cruddy the past couple of days, all hormonal, which is a bit out of the norm for me, so really will be happy to get this blardy AF out of the road (when she finally shows up...) Came into a bit of money today from a sale so might get me a pee test, and then pluck up the courage to do it. Har hum I hate doing them, I just know its going to be a bfn, and in some weird way my mind believes that as long as I don't test and still no AF, then there is always a chance! Weird huh...

Thanks for the comforting words ladies, all I ever try to do is stay motivated and try not to let things get in my way. Sometimes thats just not possible, but you can but try!

DF has just said I should treat myself and go away for a week or so to ChCh, so family, here I come!

All the best and babydust to you all!