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Pepi-bebe
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Topic: Thyroid Antibodies Posted: 08 June 2012 at 6:07pm |
Hi everyone,
Does anyone else have issues with thyroid antibodies?
I'm interested in hearing how others have treated them and if they have caused issues - eg miscarriages for other people.
I have had two miscarriages (MC) in a short timeframe(less than 5 months apart). I got pregnant on the first try in Aug 11, then lost the baby at 11w, 5d, and assessed the baby as having died at approx 8 weeks. Got pregnant again in Jan, then MC at 12weeks, mid Mar 12. We found out that time through an ultrasound after some specks of blood. The EPAU clinic of course said they would not investigate till I'd had 3 MC.
I had no obvious reason for the MC's (I'm super duper healthy, do at least 3 mths pre-conception care eg no alcohol, coffee etc, take a zillion pre-natal supplements, accupuncture etc. I also wasn't working so had no stress nor a busy lifestyle, especially with the 2nd pregnancy.
However Fertility Associates had flagged before my first pregnancy that I had a potentially low TSH - thyroid. (I wasn't under their care for either pregnancy though.) But I got pregnant easily twice in a row, and then had a TSH test at 10 wks of my first pregnancy which showed up normal. So with the second pregnancy we didn't think about it again. I told my two different midwives about the possible hypothyroidism and also spoke to my GP about it but none suggested any further monitoring or tests.
After the second baby died at 8 weeks, and after the EPAU (Early Pregnancy Assement Unit) clinician and my GP said nothing could be looked at till my third MC we started considering the thyroid again. (We figured since the baby had died at 8 weeks, maybe the thyroid levels had returned to normal afterwards and that's why the test at 10wks was fine.) Turns out the brain is developing at 8 weeks, and the brain needs iodine to grow etc so we were starting to wonder if that may be linked...Research indicated that thyroid issues were a top cause for MC at around 5-8 weeks.
Well had some great news last week - well great news wrapped in kind of an scary wrapping. I'd consulted a naturopath (Loula George at Motherwell in Mt Eden - who specialises in infertility and MC's), and had a stack of blood tests done. In total she sent me for 17 different tests, lots of blood! And my new GP was happy to oblige even though he didn't know what half of them were for :-)
When we got the results back my thyroid (TSH) is low, but only marginally - they said just to retest in 3 months, (T3 and T4 are fine), but it was the thyroid antibodies that no-one had tested before that were the real problem! They should each be less than 60 and were 500 & 1300. As well as attacking the thyroid, (as I understood her simple way of explaining it to me), they can also attack the foetus. I have been reading up and people with thyroid antibodies are shown to be 4x more likely to MC.
So we are doing a major detox then starting a naturopathic treatment programme to try and reduce the antibodies. It's scary to have them, but it's a huge relief to have an idea of what has previously been inexplicable. At least this way we can try and treat and then monitor the situation. She's managed other women with this problem through successful pregnancies, so I'm so much more hopeful.
I'm also a bit pissed off that when I flagged the potential thyroid problem to the medical people, that no one suggested checking my antibodies! A simple blood test showed their levels and even the GP was a bit horrified, even though the regular thyroid tests came back low - normal range.
So as well as asking for others stories of diagnosis, treatment and monitoring - and hopefully you'll have some success stories for me...the other point of this LONG message is...do your research, trust your instinct, consider alternative medicine (especially when combined with proof through blood tests etc as you can monitor the effects of treatment), and specifically if you have any thyroid abnormalities then consider asking for a thyroid antibody test!!!
Here's hoping I can eventually add our success story to these threads :-)
PS - I'm hardly ever on the internet lately as I access ohbaby from my iPhone (and frustratingly can't login!), but if you write on here I'll endeavour to go online and answer any questions. But don't think me rude if you reply and I don't respond straight away!
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Hopes
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Posted: 09 June 2012 at 7:04am |
I have a hyperactive (overactive) thyroid (Graves disease) and although I'm in remission, my thyroid plays up from time to time. It's my antibodies that are the main problem; as I understand it, when my body is having a difficult time keeping my thyroid under control, my antibodies (tg in particular) are raised because of the effort my body is putting in to reduce its function.
Hopefully my story gives you a little hope, because my thyroid issues haven't complicated either of my pregnancies. I took a very long time to get pregnat with DS, but that wasn't my thyroid complicating things. I don't have a history of miscarriages, once I got pregnant with him finally it was all go. I do have regular testing when I'm pregnant, because like you know, thyroid hormones can be dodgy, but my levels with him were within relatively normal ranges with only a few spikes, and so there was no need to worry.
My daughter took no time to conceive (one of those magical magical 'lets start trying - hey I feel pregnant - dammit, I AM pregnant' things). However, when I was pregnant with her, my antibody levels hit the roof. I had very frequent scans to check that she was all OK, and saw an OB regularly - but thankfully all was fine, and she didn't have an issue to speak of.
I suspect your situation is slightly different to mine. I was really interested to hear that you were HYPOthyroid and still had raised antibodies. I'm not any kind of expert on hypothyroid, since I swing the other way, but I'd kind of assumed that if my levels tend to raise (to fight my overactive thyroid), someone with an underactive thyroid would have low levels to try and get it working as best your body can. What were they measuring, do you know? I know there's a few kinds of antibodies - like I said, tg is the most important in my case. I think they must be measuring something different for you (TPO?) because the usual ranges for tg are between 0-4, rather than the 60 you were given.
I have heard that natural remedies can have a very good effect, particularly with hypothyroid issues, so hopefully what you're trying in that regard will help lots.
I do hope everything goes well for you next time round, it must be devastating to lose two little ones like you have
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whimsy
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Posted: 09 June 2012 at 9:22am |
Hi Pepi. I can't really answer any of your questions for you but wanted to point you to the fertility friends website which has a huge community of people dealing with immunes issues and might be a good place for you to start.
http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=52.0
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Pepi-bebe
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Posted: 09 June 2012 at 4:19pm |
Oh thanks ladies for your words of wisdom :-)
Whimsy - I chart through the fertility friends app but don't think I've ever used their forums, so I'll go ahve a look at that for sure.
Hopes - I think that the naturopath said that you can either go hypo or hyper with the antibodies, it can swing either way...but then again, I only had the one consultation post the test results, and there was a lot to take in. I'll recheck my results and have a lot to learn. I think I was high on both the thyroid peroxidase & the thyroglobulin (I think - the results are not here with me at the moment).
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RachFizz
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Posted: 09 June 2012 at 4:22pm |
Hi Pepi,
My thyroid antibodies are in the tens of thousands (well that was 2 or 3 years ago) and I am on 100mcg thyroxine daily as my thyroid function has obviously been immensely affected by them.
I actually had no idea they could interfere with a foetus at all. I have never conceived in 14 months of trying, so no experience with mc's.
So I can't offer any information or advice, but I might actually start looking into this for myself!
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Pepi-bebe
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Posted: 09 June 2012 at 4:45pm |
RachFizz - definitely do get it checked out to see where they are at now. If your regular doctor can't do anything about it, then I definitely recommend consulting a naturopath who specialises in fertility.
I'm not sure who's good down your way, but if you have no luck then perhaps you can work remotely with my lady? Since it's basically an interview and blood tests then maybe it can be done over the phone? Or maybe a flight to Auckland for the initial consult then over the phone?
She is called Loula George: http://www.mother-well.co.nz/Practitioners.html#link1
It would be so awesome if that was the cause!
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Hopes
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Posted: 09 June 2012 at 10:20pm |
Well, one interesting thing on the going either way is that obviously, with my daughter developing with my wacky blood supply, there was a chance that her own thyroid didn't develop right. And if that was the case, apparently it could have gone either way - she could end up hypo or hyper. In fact, she's a very chubby baby, and the Dr did actually get some bloods done just to check she wasn't hypo (she wasn't, just a chubby baby).
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Reffinej
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Posted: 30 July 2012 at 6:00pm |
You could try going on Fertility Flower as it's very much about good health as well as fertility charting etc. I've found that when it comes to thyroid antibodies, it's a bit hit and miss whether you find the info you need through health pro's...as there's a lot of 'alternative' (or, IMO, broader minded) approaches that take the autoimmune disease into account even if your hormone levels are in the 'normal' range. A good site is undergroundwellness.com (LOTS of info on ALLSORTS!) Good luck
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Reffinej
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Posted: 30 July 2012 at 9:32pm |
Also, do you eat gluten? Apparently it's a BIG FAT NO-NO if you have thyroid issues
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Pepi-bebe
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Posted: 18 August 2012 at 10:48pm |
Hi Reffinej, Sorry for the SLOW response! I can't reply from my iphone and hardly ever online otherwise. I haven't seen that site but will go have a look now. I've been doing lots of research though. Plus my naturopath has had me on a major detox for 2.5 months and I am contininuing to avoid (although not with 100% strictness as I'd rather it be do-able long term) - Gluten, sugar, soy, caffiene, processed foods etc. I also limit my diary and only have organic milk, don't drink alcohol, don't eat meat... It's been hard sometimes, but overall really good and my skin, nails and hair looks awesome! I'll be off for another antibodies test in a couple of weeks and hopefully we will have seen a difference in the levels!
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Hopes
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Posted: 20 August 2012 at 8:26pm |
Reffinej wrote:
Also, do you eat gluten? Apparently it's a BIG FAT NO-NO if you have thyroid issues |
I don't think it would hurt to avoid it if your naturopath has recommended that. But I'm yet to be persuaded as far as gluten and hyperthyroid conditions go.
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Spook
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Posted: 02 October 2012 at 1:09pm |
I have had hypothyroidism since I was 10 years old. As doctors have told me that I would have difficulties conceiving, I never had high hopes. My daughter was born in September 2009. We did not plan it and when I found out I was pregnant, I could not believe it. Throughout my pregnancy, my thyroid levels were monitored constantly to ensure they stay level. As soon as she was born, they tested her thyroid level to make sure hers was fine. All good. Since then, the doctors have been battling to stabilise my thyroid levels. I have picked up allot of weight because of it and am battling to lose weight. At the moment, I am on 2.5 mcg thyroxine tablets. We have been trying for more than a year to have our second baby, but have had no luck so far. I do not qualify for treatment as they say I have to lose at least 20kg, before I can have fertility treatment. If it was that easy, I would. But even though I eat very healthy and exercise daily, I don't seem to be losing weight. I still go for blood tests every 3 months, but I have never picked up that they test my antibodies so for my next test, I am going to ask my doctor about that.
I wish you all the best and hope you have good news soon.
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monkeys
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Posted: 02 October 2012 at 1:35pm |
Interesting about the antibodies, I will have to see if FA have tested for that for me. I have had 2 MCs and got told the same from EPAU about waiting for number 3 however have a fantastic FS who said at our review to start testing, so I have been having lots of tests. I have often wondered about thyroid issues, and although so far none of the tests have shown any issues, my FS now has me on metformin(which has been known to help with MC for women with PCOS and also Thyroid issues), high dose folic acid (500mg vs the average 0.8mg) and also baby aspirin. I'm going to email them now about the antibodies though!
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Pepi-bebe
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Posted: 07 October 2012 at 9:49pm |
Hi Spook and Monkeys, I wrote a massively long reply last week from my phone, the lost it and was too annoyed to write again sorry! Well I went back for my thyroid antibodies tests and the detox and supplements have made a big difference. Originally the counts were actually >500 and >1300, for some reason they measure them in ranges unless you are under 500. I think the ranges are >2000, >1300, >500. So that is why my naturopath has told me that it may be hard to see if what we are doing is making a difference. It's because if the drop is across a range you can't see it from the blood test results! So inexact it's crazy. Anyway, my latest measurement is the >500 has droppped to 209 and the >1300 has remained at >1300. But what she has explained to me is that potentially my >500 one could have been at 1299 and has now dropped to 209, and my >1300 may have originally been anywhere up to >1999 and now could be >1301. She believes that the downward trend of the one to 209 is likely to be linked to a downward trend in the other one, but until it drops to below 1300 we won't know where it's at. She's happy with the results, so I am relieved too. As I mentioned in one of my other posts, when you have the antibodies it can make you go hypo or hyperthyroid. As she has just spent months completly clearing my system out - and banned all iodine, I'm now hyperthyroid. (Which she anticipated.) So now I'm on a high dose of a natural thyroid supplement to try and bring it back to normal. I get more blood tests just before my next cycle and if it's not looking right then she will stick me on a 'proper' drug (Thyroxine) to quickly get me at the right level before we TTC at the end of the month :-D I like that she's willing to use both the natural and the western medicines where she needs to. The nurses at Auckland Gynaecology and Auckland Radiology even said they refer patients to her as she is so great. I'm also booked for a Lipiodol Flush with Repromed as she believes that it can possibly help to suppress the antibodies in the uterus once I'm pregnant, and it has a high rate of helping people to get pregnant more easily which is a bonus for us if it has that affect as our donor is only in NZ for a limited amount of time. I'm now back to weekly accupuncture and I'm still gluten free 95% of the time, sugar avoiding (lol), caffeine and soy free, alcohol free etc. Just a pity all the treatments aren't free haha! Let me know how you get on with your tests and if you want my amazing naturopaths details let me know!
Edited by Pepi-bebe - 07 October 2012 at 9:50pm
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