| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
Mrs_B 
Senior Member
Joined: 08 April 2008
Location: Hamilton
Points: 1142
|
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote  Reply
 Topic: 4mths & waking at night - what to do?
Posted: 21 September 2009 at 12:36pm |
Hi Girls just hoping someone has some advice for me.
Corban has always been a terrible sleeper both day and night to the point I wasn't coping with the sleep deprivation and we ended up going to Mothercraft for a week to get it sorted. So now he is in a strict routine, BF at 7am, 12pm, 5pm followed by solids and BF at 10pm. Plus he wakes once overnight (which I am fine with, far better than that 4-6 times a night he was waking previously!) but if he wakes any later than 3.30am and I feed him it puts him off his 7am feed and throws the routine into chaos which stresses me out! 
Last night he woke at 4.30am, I left him to grizzle for a while to see if he would go back to sleep but he didn't so not wanting to put him off his 7am feed I gave him 60mls of EBM via a bottle which settled him. I would have thought if he was actually hungry he would have wanted more?? Someone suggested giving him water instead? I don't want to leave him to CIO as I think he is too young plus it disturbs Hubby, who works long hours and needs his sleep.
Any other ideas? Sorry this sounds really confusing!
|
|
|
 |
|
Sponsored Links
|
|
|
cuppatea
Senior Member
Joined: 05 February 2007
Points: 7798
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 September 2009 at 12:58pm |
|
Are you able to ring mothercraft for advice?
Have you tried just giving a cuddle/rocking to see if that we resettle him. I wouldn't give water personally at such a young age, waking in the night for food is quite normal, Kyle still wakes to feed now and he has 5-7 breastfeeds in the day and 3 lots of solids.
Have you tried moving his 7am feed to 8am and then still doing the others at the same time? Sorry probably not much help, I've never done routines with mine.
|
|
|
|
ChrisW
Senior Member
Joined: 17 December 2007
Points: 179
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 September 2009 at 2:15pm |
|
Hi
I notice with my little girl that if for some reason we don't get 6 feeds during the day she will wake at night. I try and feed her at about 6am, 9am, 12pm, 3pm, 5pm and 7pm and we put her to bed after this feed approx 7.30pm , If we get the six feeds in she will sleep through to the 6am feed, if we only get 5 then she will wake once through the night anytime between 2am and 5am. Perhaps another feed during the day?
|
|
|
|
Mrs_B
Senior Member
Joined: 08 April 2008
Location: Hamilton
Points: 1142
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 September 2009 at 2:26pm |
Yeah I thought about going back to 4hrly feeds but I'm scared I will muck up the routine and things will go back to how they were He sleeps 3hrs in the morning and 3hrs in the afternoon now  Then goes to bed at 7pm. I always thought I wouldn't be a routine kinda Mum but with having PND the lack of structure was affecting me, both he and I are so much happy now
|
|
|
|
mumtooboys
Senior Member
Joined: 31 May 2008
Location: Wellington
Points: 236
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 September 2009 at 3:00pm |
There is a MASSIVE growth spurt at 4 months and I'm not sure what your plans are but if you are planning on sticking with bf you risk stuffing up your milk supply by feeding him to a rigid schedule like that. I can empathise with the underlying issues but babies aren't meant to be fed when the clock says they are hungry, they should be fed when they indicate hunger regardles of what time it is.
I had a baby who is a 'bad' sleeper, it wasn't until I accepted that 3 hourly is normal (and sometimes hourly during growth spurts) and that it's what they do that I coped better with it. When he was about 9 months we tried to cut out night feeds again and sometimes cuddles worked and sometimes they didn''t and I jsut had to feed him. We had him in our bed from birth until 5.5 months whenhe decided he didn't want to be there. It meant that everyone got the sleep they needed and if he woke and needed feeding all I had to do was latch him and that was it. LOL
The only time any of my children go 5 hours or more without food is when they are sleeping, I can't believe that it has been recommended for a 4 MONTH old baby. Not a go at you by any means, I just find it shocking that people would actually recommend not feeding a baby that young more than 5 hourly. 
|
|
|
|
skp
Senior Member
Joined: 24 August 2008
Points: 423
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 September 2009 at 4:09pm |
|
Our baby is 10 wks and I have a strict routine of eat, play, sleep but she eats every 2 - 3 hours and is awake for no more than 1 hour 15min at a time (30min to eat, 45 min for nappy change and play).
it has helped my stress levels to have a routine, but she can choose to eat when she needs to, as long as its not earlier than 2hrs between.
She has bath, massage and in bed by 9pm, dreamfeed at 11.30 and sleeps through till 4-5am, feeds, then up at 8am.
There is no way in the world our DH would sleep through if i fed her 5 hrs apart in the day.
I'm no expert, but I really think you will have less issues if she feeds more frequently during the day
|
|
|
|
Mamma2N
Senior Member
Joined: 15 February 2009
Points: 908
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 September 2009 at 4:50pm |
 mumtooboys wrote:
The only time any of my children go 5 hours or more without food is when they are sleeping, I can't believe that it has been recommended for a 4 MONTH old baby. Not a go at you by any means, I just find it shocking that people would actually recommend not feeding a baby that young more than 5 hourly. |
I have to agree with this.. I understand that routines can be great for people but find 5 hourly feeds quite extreme for such a young baby. Have you looked at perhaps another routine?
In terms of the night-wakings, all I can say is they are completely normal. I have been blessed with a great sleeper overall, but she still has nights, even weeks where she wakes constantly and feeds. At 4mths she was very erratic with her sleep & feeding but, my Plunket Nurse reassured me that she will eventually get into her own routine. At nearly 6mths, this has happened, over the last week or so shes feeding/sleeping roughly the same times.
I'm not sure this helps, but all I can really say is they change everything on you when you least expect it! LOL I've found with teething she wakes in pain and at times she won't feed properly during the day instead wanting to feed at night.. then there are growth spurts etc. Anyone that tells you that their child does the same thing day in day out at exactly the same times is telling you a wee fib!
Edited by Mamma2N
|
|
Mrs_B
Senior Member
Joined: 08 April 2008
Location: Hamilton
Points: 1142
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 September 2009 at 5:17pm |
|
Well I must admit I thought that 5hrly feeds was a long time too at first but I'm not sure how it makes a difference if a baby feeds 6x a day and takes smaller volumes or feeds 4-5x but takes larger volumes if the overall volume intake for 24hrs is the same. I know my boy is an efficient feeder the first feed we did there he took 250mls in under 10mins (they test weigh). He was happy enough to go along with it and doesn't demand to be fed earlier, he is happy, healthy and gaining weight so if it ain't broke....
Mothercraft is part of the hospital and run by medical professionals, it has been open for more than 30 years so I trust they know what they are doing.
I understand that night wakings are normal and like I said I'm fine with it just wondering how other mums with routine manage it.
Edited by Mrs_B
|
|
|
|
stefany3
Senior Member
Joined: 01 January 1900
Location: Auckland
Points: 190
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 September 2009 at 8:19pm |
Hey Mrs B,
I'm in a fairly strict routine with Isaac (when he co-operates!) and when he used to wake up once in the night, anywhere between 3-5am, I'd feed him one side, and then wake him at 7am, but wait til 7.30am to feed him the next half, as he'd still finish feeding at the same time as if he'd had both sides IYKWIM.
I tried giving him water, but that never settled him like the breast.
I would say if Corban is waking in the early hours and not settling back to sleep then, he IS hungry, so I would reccommend you feed him half or quarter of his full feed.
I would also try to not feed him earlier than you did the morning before.
ie. if he wakes at 3am on monday, then 2.30am on tues, don't feed him until 3am (if you can hold him off). this worked for us most mornings and he eventually woke up later and later for that early feed and then dropped it completly.
A lot of people are anti strict routines, but sometimes it works for us, and if they have been proven by mothercraft, then i think it's just fine.
Whatever works for you. and it sounds like Corban is way better now than he was.
|
|
|
|
queenb
Senior Member
Joined: 01 December 2008
Location: Papamoa
Points: 456
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 September 2009 at 9:20pm |
Mrs_B wrote:
Mothercraft is part of the hospital and run by medical professionals, it has been open for more than 30 years so I trust they know what they are doing.
|
that's great to hear that your bub is happy, healthy and gaining weight with 5 hr gaps. Just re Mothercraft, yes they are medical professionals, but they aren't mummy, who knows best. Only YOU know what's best for your baby
At the moment, my lil darling is waking hourly at night to feed !! She's 6months. But I figure it's either a growth spurt, teething, or a mix. Typically she wakes at least 2x a night to feed. I must admit we aren't on a strict routine and never have been. But this works for both Layla and myself (and DH who starts work by 3am but has never been woken up by Layla)
At 4 months missymoo was waking 3 x a night to feed, and we all coped. I just think to myelf, this isn't forever. And if my baby needs sustenance throughout the night, then that's what I'm here for and it's a privilege to be able to do so
Edited due to: PS 5 hour gaps for an adult isn't even recommended and our stomachs are waaaay bigger!
Edited by queenb
|
|
|
|
Mrs_B
Senior Member
Joined: 08 April 2008
Location: Hamilton
Points: 1142
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 22 September 2009 at 8:36am |
|
Okay now that the majority of you have made me feel like a terrible mother would you be kind enough to suggest a more appropriate routine? Thanks
|
|
|
|
kathamill
Senior Member
Joined: 27 April 2009
Points: 141
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 22 September 2009 at 8:59am |
|
i just PM you
|
|
QHX
Newbie
Joined: 23 September 2008
Points: 35
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 22 September 2009 at 9:03am |
My mother always told me there are only a couple of ways to parent badly, and a million different ways to parent right. If you feel like you are doing the right thing by your baby then you probably are! For us we work in cycles. A cycle is similar to what skp was saying, sleep, eat, play then back to the start again. I also never let DD nap for longer than 2 hours (something to do with sleep cycles) and this works for us. She goes down for the night by 7pm. Depending on growth milestones she usually sleeps through till 6.30am.
Also, when I heard the old saying to "watch the baby, not the clock" it seemed to take a lot of pressure off. It was a bit of a revelation for me actually, and I have never tried to structure DD's day by the hour again, and we have all been happier since, but that is just us.
One of the things I really like about parenting is that every day is different, and if something didn't work yesterday try something different today! There is so much scope for improvement and fine tuning. 
Edited by QHX
|
|
cuppatea
Senior Member
Joined: 05 February 2007
Points: 7798
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 22 September 2009 at 9:05am |
I don't think anyone thinks you are a terrible mother, I think it is more that we are surprised you would be advised to feed 5 hourly which is contrary to what everyone else advises. There is a lady in our Jan 09 thread that was advised the same thing when she went to mothercraft and I was dumbfounded then as well as it just seems so wrong to not feed a baby for 5 hours. Mine have always fed 2-3 hourly and even more frequently during growth spurts, my toddler never goes more than about 10 mins without eating or drinking these days and think of yourself, do you go 5 hours without eating or drinking?
I really don't know what to advise you, except that I think the more baby takes during the day the less likely they are to wake at night, so maybe going by that you could feed 4 hourly and be flexible with what time in the morning the feeds start, or if you really want to start at 7am make that a top up feed if he isn't ready for a full one cos of when he's fed in the night.
 and honestly I don't think anyone was having a go at you or thinking you are being a bad mum, just surprised at the advice you have been given
|
|
|
|
mummyofprinces
Senior Member
Joined: 10 February 2008
Location: Hibiscus Coast
Points: 8627
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 22 September 2009 at 9:14am |
|
Mrs_B you keep doing what works for you hun.
Re: the night feeds.
I know how frustrating it can be when you are sleep deprived and not coping with PND. I went through the same thing when Jake was 3 months. He was getting about 8 hours sleep per day. I was averaging 2.5 hours a day. We were both a mess!
I didnt start a routine as strict as yours as my boy is the opposite, only takes about 80ml per feed so he needs more often.
I dont think anyone was trying to imply you are a bad mother hun, its just very uncommon and people were probably concerned you were given misinformation.
I like the idea of giving him a half feed, if he will take that or maybe give him another dream feed at 2.30am??? That might help you keep your structure.
As long as Corban is reaching his milestones and growing then you are doing well! A healthy happy mummy is just as important for Corban.
|
|
|
|
rachelsea
Senior Member
Joined: 16 February 2008
Location: Lower Hutt
Points: 3797
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 22 September 2009 at 9:22am |
Hey Mrs B, just wanted to say that I now give my DD water when she wakes during the night, it works for us most of the time (except for last night, lol). By the way, I was told by Plunket that it's ok to give babies water once they are on solids so don't worry about that
You're definitely not a terrible mum, you're doing what is best for you and your baby, keep up the good work
|
DD 4yrs DS 2yrs 
|
|
queenb
Senior Member
Joined: 01 December 2008
Location: Papamoa
Points: 456
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 22 September 2009 at 9:27am |
Mrs_B wrote:
Okay now that the majority of you have made me feel like a terrible mother would you be kind enough to suggest a more appropriate routine? Thanks |
Mrs_B, our comments were not made for you to think you are a terrible mother. I can only personally comment for myself, but the thought of holding off feeding my baby for 5 hours almost brings me to tears. Remember, their stomachs are sooo small, so every 2 -3 hours is how we feed (we do demand feed though). As Layla knows when she's hungry, as your bub does, it works out 3 hourly, without us having to look at the clock. I believe the "experts" who recommended this to you should be told they are giving out wrong advice, as it's due to their professional basis that you have listened to them (and maybe not to your heart?) But we know that you are doing the best you can, and that you are doing a fantastic job 
re routine, I realise we do have a routine, but it's not based on time. e.g. upon waking, playtime (nappy free time, tummy time, change, exersaucer), feed then sleep. This is what works well for us, play, feed then sleep. I know that most books, i.e. baby whisperer recommend feed, play, sleep. So whatever works well for you & baby 
I believe in listening to your heart, your gut feelings and your intuition when it comes to parenting.
I hope that from all our comments and support you will find what works for you & your beautiful baby
|
|
|
|
HoneybunsMa
Senior Member
Joined: 01 February 2009
Location: NZ
Points: 1724
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 22 September 2009 at 3:13pm |
Man I would love to have a four hourly feeder even! I have tried to go four hourly but it doesn't seem to happen.
We don't have set times as such we just do the feed, play, sleep as when she gets older I don't want her associating food with sleep. DP used to fall asleep in his food so don't want DD doing that lol.
I consider our last feed for the night here to be between 10.30-12 depending on her day and what she has been like. I confess I am also teaching her to sleep in lol. I am a shocker in the morning and find myself far too tired if I get up before 9am sometimes even 10 so if she sleeps till then that is fine with me. She does have normally only one feed between midnight and 6am though so when/if she wakes more then that its a bit of a shock to the system.
In the original post you mentioned that you gaveh im 60ml of EBM if that is enough to settle him then do that no harm. As pp have said to give him half a feed, think they got caught up on the 5hr feed thing though
I remember when DD was first born my MW said that sometimes they may not want a full three course meal sometimes they just want a drink. DD has always been an efficient feeder so I'm lucky in that sense and now when she has a growth spurt as she only takes one side normaly I only have to give her both sides so its not that bad! Am quite happy about that lol.
There's my 2cents
ETA I read this link awhile ago just reading the information about what other people are going through is helpful do what works for you.
Edited by oOElleOo
|
|
|
|
Mrs_B
Senior Member
Joined: 08 April 2008
Location: Hamilton
Points: 1142
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 22 September 2009 at 4:04pm |
I don't make him wait (i.e he is not screaming to be fed) if he is obviously hungry I will feed him early but he often doesn't even demand after 5hrs but I feed him anyway. So today I tried feeding him 4hrly, he did feed with some perseverance (he's at that easily distracted age) but hasn't slept nearly as well, back to his catnaps of 45mins
I tried the EASY routine when he was younger without success. I don't like Gina Ford. I know that babies aren't a "thing" to be managed but I need a routine for my own sanity.
Not sure what the point of this post is....
|
|
|
|
Shells
Senior Member
Joined: 17 January 2008
Location: Hamilton
Points: 137
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 22 September 2009 at 5:22pm |
|
Hey you!!
I know for a fact that you are doing a fantastic job!! I have seen Corban and he is a happy and gorgeous wee man, I really admire how much you have persevered with breastfeeding him too, you are an awesome Mum!
People are so opinionated when it comes to feeding babies, they don't seem to take into account how emotionally fragile new mums can be and can be quite insensitive about the way they say things sometimes which makes me cross!
I've recently put Kimberley fully onto formula after she had recovered from her op and the guilt I felt about it due to things that have been said (even by my own Mum!) is ridculous. Maybe I should make them try expressing several times a day while raising a 2 year old and see how they get on!!
|
|
Shelley :)
|
|
4mths & waking at night - what to do?
