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KiwiL 
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 Topic: Fighting the bottle
Posted: 25 January 2009 at 7:30pm |
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Jackson is now on bottle full time.
He will always take the bottle happily to start. After about 70 - 100ml he will eject and need to burp.
Then the fun begins. He WILL NOT take the bottle again. He fights and squirms and clamps his mouth shut. It's a battle, but if you get the bottle back in, then he will stop fighting and drink another 70 - 100ml! However, it is ridiculous that we have to fight him in such a way. But he is obviously still hungry and the fact he eats more suggests we need to do the battle.
Anyone had a baby similar? Any ideas why he might do this? He has bad reflux but it is being treated with 15mg omeprazole per day, which is a high dose. This behaviour is really tiresome and sometimes quite distressing.
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busymum
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Posted: 25 January 2009 at 8:01pm |
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I don't really have any idea... but is it EBM or formula? Perhaps he doesn't like it so he only has as much as is absolutely necessary.
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happymumma
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Posted: 25 January 2009 at 8:03pm |
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We have a similar issue at the moment. Ollie is clearly wanting the bottle, will drink a bit and then cry. He will drink most of the bottle but periodically pulls off and cries. I don't think it is reflux, the teat is appropriate for his age...
Sorry...no answers...just keen to hear whatever anyone else comes up with too!!
What bottle and teat size are you using Kiwilaurie? Could it be flow rate? THe only other thing I can think is if you could stop his need to burp in the middle would that help? Have you tried something like Infacol? I'm with you on the tiresome / distressing front. It's hard going. Hang in there.
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Shezamumof3
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Posted: 25 January 2009 at 8:22pm |
Hmmm, we have dealt with this aswell and I have found the best thing to do is put him down to play for 10 mins of so, and then try again and he will usually drink the rest happily.
Fighting him is probably making him annoyed, hence why he wont drink, so Id try letting him play for a bit then offer him the bottle again. Having a play on his tummy will help him get any more wind up aswell and make room in his tummy for more milk.
Just put the bottle in a bowel of hot water to keep it warm 
I have trouble with Caden even now doing that, he will push the bottle away and get grumpy at me, so I put the bottle down and then he is going "ah ah ah uhhh" trying to get to the bottle lol And sometimes he just likes to have kick and play and then drink the rest, as formula is filling and remember Jackson is still getting used to it
Edited by Sheza
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denny25
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Posted: 25 January 2009 at 8:38pm |
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Ava used to do that. We actually stopped burping her 1/2 way through and just let her drink as much as she wanted. that way we found she drunk more. Then we would burp her for ages after, and sit her up for 10 mins or so.
Could be the flow rate. what teat size have you got him on?
Also, ive read that babies who are overtired tend to do this...
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happymumma
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Posted: 25 January 2009 at 8:43pm |
Interesting Denny - Ollie has definitely been overtired at times so I wonder whether that's the answer for him. Thanks 
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FionaO
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Posted: 25 January 2009 at 8:57pm |
OMG we went through this for ages, I was going insane, but it seems to have stopped.My only advice if he really is saying no, do not keep offering and fighting, for a start its no fun and i'm sure it made finley worse. He would then tense up and so would i.
In the end I stopped forcing him an just let him take it, oh and I changed formula from Karricare to s26, whether it was him that changed or me, not sure but we don't have this issue anymore. When he shakes his head and closes his mouth, I just say to him ok no more then and we move on, if he hasn't had much I might offer him more 15 - 20 minutes later. More often than not though he is ok now.
Actually come to think of it, we had this issue when we went to the bottle full time, so maybe it was just getting used to the change and wind...who knows, but its not worth fighing him, we had some snack feeding days because of it, but like I said he has learnt to take more and I no longer dread feeding (I was for a while) and that probably helps.
Whoops long post, but what you described is exactly how Finn used to be.
Sorry...finally Finley definately only does this now when overtired.
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KiwiL
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Posted: 25 January 2009 at 8:57pm |
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He does it with EBM or formula, so not sure it is the taste. I think this is the point he used to stop feeding on the breast, so at least we CAN get more into him, it is just difficult.
Have also tried the big break thing, but he still super-fusses. But as soon as the bottle is in his mouth properly he will drink happily. He just doesn't want it in there!! It would be impossible to feed him when out and about!
We use infacol in the bottle, and keep him on as long as possible, but often he will just spit it out quite early on. Doesn't matter if he has had 50ml, 70ml or 120ml, the ensuing battle is always the same. Ideally I'd like to not wind him till the end, but he does get upset if we don't stop when he wants to.
He's on thickened formula and we have him on a medium teat. He is coping really well with the flow right from the beginning, so I think the teat size is ok too.
Perplexed!!
I will try a bit of a longer play for a bit, as that seems to work for a few of you.
If there is any more advice, please share!
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KiwiL
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Posted: 25 January 2009 at 8:59pm |
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Just saw your post Fi. Thanks for the tips!
You're right - I am dreading feeding as I get so tense myself. I will see how we go over the next couple of days.
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FionaO
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Posted: 25 January 2009 at 9:06pm |
Sorry, but what you are saying is identical, I stopped feeding when out, so stopped going out near feed times, as he would pull off anywhere from 50+ and just scream, took ages to calm down. I dreaded feeding him at my coffee group even, he honestly made so much fuss.
My tips, would only be, stop fighting, if he pulls off once, offer once more, before saying ok, putting the bottle down and doing something else, for a while it meant during the day we were feeding 2 hourly, but it DID get easier. Its nuts cos you know they are hungry.
I think its the change, what formula do you use, when we changed to s26 it got better.
I
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FionaO
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Posted: 25 January 2009 at 9:09pm |
I think I got so wound up as it was just when I was stopping bf cos he wouldn't stay on the boob/suck or do anything and I thought heck if he won' drink the bottle either, how is this going to work.
I think Sheza is right its more filling, stomachs take time to get used to the change.
On a good note, we now have a wee little piggy who chugs through his bottles (except today but now I know its just not a mega hungry day so its ok)
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busymum
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Posted: 25 January 2009 at 9:12pm |
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All I would suggest then is that if he is refusing the bottle, give him a break from it and offer it again in 15+ minutes, when he seems to be hungry again.
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FionaO
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Posted: 25 January 2009 at 9:15pm |
Laurie just bumped my post from just before christmas where I ask pretty much the same thing.
mega thanks still to Sheza for suggesting S26 - we've never looked back
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jaycee
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Posted: 26 January 2009 at 8:52am |
I would also suggest having a great if he fusses, but also have you tried a different bottle and teat shape? i have always used avent and had no problems but a friends baby hated them and they use tommy tipee.
Also for such a wee boy with a little tummy, it may take a while to work up to 150ml or more. It did for Sophie. We have just had a bad patch with her when she stops dead on 100ml and wont take a drop more  .
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KiwiL
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Posted: 26 January 2009 at 9:24am |
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Well, tried a break today but still had the same fuss. I will keep trying all day to see if we can get him calmed down enough to take it again. He just acts like he is still starving but won't accept the bottle again. It's very confusing. He is on S26 AR formula and doesn't seem to mind the taste, though it has to be warm.
I really hope it's what you guys say.... that he's just getting used to it and building up his appetite. I get stressed when the formula tin says a 4 month old should be having 1200ml a day, and sometimes Jackson only does 600ml!
I worry that he won't grow or develop properly if he doesn't eat well.
I wish they could tell us what was wrong!
As an aside, the constipation goes away eventually right? I have been trying to give some water but it's hard when he gets upset at the bottle. Any other tips?
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FionaO
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Posted: 26 January 2009 at 9:43am |
Yep constipation went for us - no issues now.
Hey i forgot to say I my DH's cousin had a lovely little chubby bubba at xmas and she said some days she drinks loads and some days she'll only want 100ml and she was nearly 6 months old and a very healthy weight, is now sitting, crawling and eating solids.
I was told not to give a break in the feed unless they pull off, so we don't now, it made him more angry, i let him go for it until he pulls off, wind and offer again, sometimes he has finished the whole thing, sometimes
I have no tips for water, I've tried everything and he just loses it with me - he really knows when its water not milk. I even tried from a sippy cup as he wouldn't recognise that but no.
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jaycee
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Posted: 26 January 2009 at 9:45am |
You could try 1/2 tsp of soft brown sugar in 50ml of cooled boiled water - it helps to move it on  . It also tastes better than plain water!
Don't get too freaked out by the numbers - some babies probably never take 1200ml. S26 is more volume than the other formulas too. The others all seem to be in 50ml lots not 60ml. As I said before, it took Sophie a while to get up to 200ml and she often didn't drink it all. Is he fairly settled (apart from feeding time)? And how is he at night?
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SophiasMummy
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Posted: 26 January 2009 at 9:52am |
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We had same problem, she has been on the bottle 5 days now and is just starting to get better. I also use infacol and don't stop to burp her, I just burp her once she spits it out, she often then won't take anymore. I think she is gradually building up the amount she takes (I keep a note just to make sure she is not falling to far backwards, still a paranoid mummy!). Yes it is confusing when after a big battle they will take more but I am just not battling anymore and what will be will be. Soph is not taking anywhere near what the tin says, she takes maybe 600ml and tin says 900ml for the day. When you think about it if they haven't been getting much bf then there tummies are not capable of taking more straight away, i.e. I remember when I had glandular fever and pretty much didn't eat for a week, it took me a long time to build up to eating a full meal again.
Sorry about the ramble. I am sure Jackson will get better in time. Oh I am using NUK teats and she seems to like these.
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KiwiL
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Posted: 26 January 2009 at 10:07am |
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I am glad I am not the only one to have had the problem!
I never take the bottle of Jackson, but by 100ml he always spits it out to have time out. Is it possible he will get used to drinking for longer?
It would be so much easier not to stress if we did not have the weight gain/reflux issue. But, then if we didn't have the weight gain/reflux issue he would still be breastfed and we'd both be happy!
We are also using Nuk - the wider ones, not the tiny square-ish ones. It took us ages to find a bottle he liked, but he is very competent on these. He knows how to drink, he just pretends he doesn't want to!
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KiwiL
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Posted: 26 January 2009 at 10:12am |
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Oh, Jaycee, to answer your questions, yes he is pretty calm and settled during the day. He gets fairly ratty in the evening though. Not sure if it's the witching hour or wind catching up on him.
He's a bit grumpy at the moment because he's constipated. Would that give him a sore belly?
At night he goes to bed about 8pm (try to make it 7pm but it never seems to work). He's then up at 10pm for a feed at 10:30pm and back down by about 11:15pm. He'll then wake anywhere between about 3:30am and 5am for a feed. We're hoping to eventually drop that one!!
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Fighting the bottle
