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Katep View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09 November 2009 at 2:11pm
My 3 monther has never been a day sleeper, it would be rare even to ever get her down for a day sleep. But for the last month during the day she screams. Generally it will start as a grizzle and then a cry and soon becomes a scream. I know she is fed, changed and burped and sometimes has reflux meds (I'm not convinced she actually has reflux). What else could be wrong?

At the moment I leave her for anywhere between 2-10minutes at a time to cry...depending on how bad it is.
She will stop when I pick her up or stand over her and stroke her hair (but if she is really worked up she may take longer to settle).

Is this normal? Could there be something else wrong. It only happens when I put her to bed in her cot for day sleeps and sometimes beofre bed (not much anymore though). Other than this she is a really happy, healthy baby.

**i have been given heaps of advice on how to settle her for sleeps on here already, so not realy after that sort of advice**
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SquishysMum View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SquishysMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2009 at 2:23pm
Does it happen only when she goes to her room to sleep? Maybe she's lonely... DD did something similar around 2-3 months, and we found she only screamed when she was on her own. We put her in a moses basket in the lounge and then went about every day business, ignoring her but she could see me IYKWIM. Eventually she would just drift off.
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SarahJane View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SarahJane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2009 at 2:23pm

Why only sometimes reflux meds? Which meds and has she done a growth spurt lately? Bottle feeding (if so which formula) or bfing?

That does sound a lot like silent reflux, it really stuffs up day sleeps. http://www.cryingoverspiltmilk.co.nz/Symptoms.htm Does she settle at all whe upright? Like on your shoulder, in the buggy, in a bouncinette?

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Katep View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Katep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2009 at 2:31pm
I dont always give the reflux meds as I am trying to work out if it is really reflux.
She has a bottle before bed, the rest of the time she is breast fed. It use to only happen at night, the Dr. seemed to think that is was reflux and it was only happening at night aftyer her bottle. This made sense. But now she is has the screaming matches more so during the day and it happens when she has the meds (sometimes not...could be a coincidence).

I think she had a growth spirt at 12 weeks( i think she is 15 now).   The meds are called ranitidine (i think the other name is zantac).

She usually stops crying when I hold her up right, she is fine in the buggy lying down (never cries) and she would be fine sitting in her bouncer....but would never fall asleep.
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Katep View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Katep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2009 at 2:33pm
She stops when I go in and she sees me (she will look at me and whine a little, but she does stop screaming).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SarahJane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2009 at 2:44pm

Ranitidine is very weight sensitive. If it is a while since she had her dose prescribed then she will need a larger volume as she now weighs more. A dose that is too low won't have any affect at all (as you suspect)

It really does sound like silent reflux. Your daughter may have the acid building up in her tummy and whe she lies down it pools and aggravates the ulcers and inflammation in her oesophagus. It hurts!

Please go back to your dr and get an updated volume of ranitidine, and give as prescribed. You may find with the right dose the screaming stops, it is worth following through properly.

Other non-medicine ways... keep her upright for naps in the buggy or a bouncinette. Settle her and lie her down on her left side so that the acid has a chance to drain. Feed her in  2 smaller volumes and keep her upright for 30 min after a feed.

It may be a medical problem, or it may be her personalitiy shining trough, but either way please get the reflux checked, and then you can work on the other stuff too.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SarahJane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2009 at 2:47pm

oh yeah, and whoever had the bright idea of calling it "silent" reflux had a very sick sense of humour.

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Katep View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Katep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2009 at 2:53pm
thanks, have made an appt for wednesday. I just find it odd than it only happens in her cot. I could happily put her down after a feed under her playgym, she never cries in the buggy when lying flat and she has no problem going back into her cot after her 6am feeds.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SarahJane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2009 at 3:10pm

Good luck, these links may help if you haven't already seen them:

http://www.cryingoverspiltmilk.co.nz/MedicalTreatment/DosageSchedule.htm

http://www.cryingoverspiltmilk.co.nz/MedicalTreatment/Ranitidine.pdf

It might be that the reflux only bothers her when she is over-tired, or seperated from you, and of course at 3 months she is a lot more aware than she used to be. Or it may be that certain times of day she feels it more. Or maybe it is not reflux at all. But I am glad you are going to the dr anyway to check it out.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SarahJane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2009 at 3:17pm

Oh and if you are bfing still, you haven't increased the amount of dairy you eat in the last month, have you?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FionaS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2009 at 3:23pm
Babies often really fight being put into bed if they are either overtired or undertired. It could be a combo of things...overtired + a bit of discomfort which = "mum come and get me". How long is she up before you offer the first nap?
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Katep View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Katep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2009 at 4:15pm
I try after being up after an hour, sometimes 1.5......but because that generally doesn't work, she is usually for up to 6 hours!!! Her record is 8 hours....but she doesn'y get grumpy when up for that long.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FionaS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2009 at 4:23pm
If you definitely want her to take naps, I'll pm you some stuff the sleep consultant told us when we had trouble with Elle's naps at that age. Just got to play with Elle now but can do it tonight if you are keen.
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Katep View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Katep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2009 at 4:45pm
Absolutely!

She has only slept 20 minutes today, and that was in the car. It has just become more stressfull to get her to bed, than it is to not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bexee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2009 at 8:01pm
I'd love to see some of that stuff to Fiona as I can really struggle with DS arvo naps.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FionaS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2009 at 9:05pm
Right. Here are the basics of what the sleep consultant said. She uses these techniques on babies over 3 months of age. It is based on the creation of biorhythms that assist the baby to go to sleep and stay asleep.

From 3 months they have sleep hormones and can start to organise day sleep. Prior to 3mths they do not have sleep hormones and they are busy organising their night sleep.

Elle was waking after 10 to 40mins from all naps. Using this technique, she was consistently taking solid 1.5 to 2 hour naps after 3 weeks.

NB: She recommended CC for extending naps and I did NOT do that...the naps extended without needing to do CC. Below I simply say "resettle" as you can do what ever you choose to help them get back to sleep if they wake early.

1. Start by setting a time for the first nap. You need to guess a bit as to what the perfect awake time for your baby is...perhaps 1 hour + or -.
2. Start the day around the same time if you can. e.g. wake the baby at a set time such as 7.30.
3. If the baby wakes earlier than you plan for the day, e.g. 7, you still keep them up until the set nap time even though this will mean they are overtired.
4. Put baby to bed for their first nap at the set time. This may be plus or minus 15mins. Have some set things you do before the nap - these act as cues. For example, go into their room, close the curtains, put them in their sleeping bag & bop them for a bit before putting them into their bed.
3. If baby wakes before 1 hour, try to resettle. Get baby calm then leave the room and repeat until they are alseep OR 40mins has passed.

Do the above for 3 to 14 days to create a biorhythm. Once the baby has a biorhythm at that time, their body will assist them to go to sleep and stay asleep.

Do the abobve for every nap. You can either do it all at once or work on one nap at a time.

Once baby is good at taking good naps, you will find you can relax the set times and they will nap well at anytime (worked for us really quickly). If you start having short naps again, setting times is a good way to recreate biorhythms and get them into a good pattern.

Some things to note:
1. Do not use props for sleep or feed immediately before sleep.
2. Make sure awake times are age appropriate. Too much or too little awake time can create short naps. However, when setting biorhythms, you have to watch the clock not the baby but only for a few short days.

Let me know if you have any questions :)
Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley
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Katep View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Katep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2009 at 11:17am
Thanks Fiona! I'm not going to bother until we get up north next week as we will be spending 2 days driving.

So went to the dr. and he prescribed Omeprazole. gave that a go last night at 5pm- 2 hours before bed time so it would give a chance for it to work. Well, the first half of it, she spat back up. I finally got the rest down her and after a quick feed she had a quick spill (maybe 5mins later). SO I'm not sure if anything actually got down her.
It probably didnt as she had a 2 hour screaming match, maybe the worst yet. She was in our arms for the first 90 minutes and then let her sit in her bouncer for 30 minutes. After that she went down with just a small grizzle. and this was after her sitting up for 20 minutes sfter her bottle.

So tonight, I am going to space it out about and give her 1ml at a time, so 3mls in total over 3 hours.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SarahJane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2009 at 11:37am

Did the dr say that you can mix the losec suspenion with milk? It may help it go down easier as it is quite bitter and salty.

Here is the faq sheet if you haven't already found it http://www.cryingoverspiltmilk.co.nz/MedicalTreatment/Omeprazolesuspension.pdf

Good luck!

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Katep View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Katep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2009 at 11:46am
Ew, I tried it and it was gross! The dr didn't mention anything (he wasnt my usual dr, mine was running late and he was availible). the phamasist did ask if I already had a syringe...so I assumed ut was to me give that way?

do you think I should ring and ask? Or can it be mixed for any baby?

thanks for the link!

Mum to the Gorgeous Leah!
              7 months
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SarahJane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2009 at 12:30pm

The losec suspension is fine to be mixed with milk. Maybe have some ebm or formula and mix it with 15 ml or so before a feed. Worth doing when wee miss is really hungry. You do want to get the whole dose in, so don't mix with too large a volume.

Lots of babies refuse the losec suspension, in which case you can swap to the granules, which get given with a wee smidge of pureed pear to help them go down.

The losec should help reduce the acid fairly quickly, within a day or two, but it may take time for her wee oesophagus to heal if she is sore. It sucks but you really have to persevere for a week to know if it is helping.

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