Opinions sought on sleep patterns

O.k so there are many threads on sleep as it seems it's almost a number one issue for most mums and I know me being a first time mum I've got no experience so thought I would start another thread to get your opinions. No judgements, just your honest thoughts,opinions etc.
So here’s my situation. Maddy is six weeks old and she has great night time sleeps, generally 2.5 hours to 3 hour sleeps and most of the time I can put her back in her bassinet without much fuss. Day time we have a much different scenario. She won’t settle unless I rock her to sleep and recently she has only been getting 1.5 hour to 2 hour sleep per day and we have a very grumpy baby by the end of the day with her settling down for a night time sleep around 9.30 to 10.30pm. I have also let her feed until she gets to sleep (a bad habit probably). Yesterday I let her sleep on the couch as I feared moving her if she woke up (obviously making sure she is safe in this position). She won’t take a dummy, I keep trying her on it but she gags or spits it out.   There are so many opinions and yesterday a friend mentioned to me about controlled crying, ie make sure she is fed, changed burped etc and then put her to sleep and if she starts crying to leave her for at least 12 minutes, then get her up and offer her a feed, check nappy, make sure she doesn’t have wind and then put her back. She has got the book baby wise which apparently is very controversial. I have googled the book and has been slammed by a number of doctors and pediatricians. I am not interested in limiting her feeds or anything like that I just want to get into some better habits so she can get some sleep. I’ve had a look on sleepstore website and they recommend the book the baby whisperer which I’m keen to get.   The other thing is that Maddy has to wear a brace as she was breech and has hip displacia so I wonder whether at times this annoys her, especially in the heat. I’ve read through some posts and other mum’s have similar issues getting their babies to sleep, I could have almost written the same post. So my question is, are there any other good methods you have used, what do you think of the controlled method of crying?? Is it unrealistic to expect a six week old to have some type of routine? Is it possible she has separation anxiety when I am not around, ie is she too dependent on me and is that even possible?? Being adults I think we get conditioned that crying means something is wrong and sometimes babies just cry for no reason, the first instinct is that you just want to cuddle them to make it better. My DH thinks the controlled crying method is the way to go as he thinks I am starting bad habits and making a rod for my back for later on. I was all for trying it, but today she has woken several times and I hate her getting distressed, the longest she slept in the bassinet was half an hour and that was after I picked her up for a cuddle and put her back to sleep now she’s asleep on the couch beside me and again scared to move her which I know is not a good thing. At this stage she also doesn’t like being put in the stroller to settle her, it appears the only thing is me holding her or rocking her….. Oh and I do wrap her except she hates her arms being enclosed, and I can’t use a bath as a means of relaxing her as I can only sponge bath her due to the brace and we are not allowed to take it off. Just wondering also whether co-sleeping is bad to get them off to sleep or when they won’t settle, you name it I want to know. Thanks for sharing…

Your baby is still very young, and I personally don't think controlled crying is a good idea at any age, but especially not for a baby of 6 weeks.
Also, babies don't cry for no reason. Sometimes the reason might be that they need a cuddle, but that is essential as food for babies.

Forget the books, and go with your instincts - a cuddle can make it all better.

Also, I totally agree with everything that pudgy has said above.

Good luck - hope things improve soon

Thanks Hila, yes I make sure I give her plenty of those I don't believe you can 'spoil' them in that way as some people would have you believe.

Just read your posts. Go with your gut instinct. Mummy instinct is rarely wrong And remember happy mum = happy babe. Fairly naff statement but it's often right.

Oooh, Asics, I totally know how you feel, sleep (or the lack of!) is such a frustrating thing. I’ve noticed that of any of the parenting obstacles, I’m bombarded most often by information (and expectations!) about sleep.

I read Babywise the other day, and can’t say I liked the book much. I disliked the tone a lot; it made me feel as if the reason Jacob struggles to sleep is because I haven’t been parenting him properly. Which is, of course, possible, but I don’t think that’s all there is too it and even if it is I’m not a fan of a book that makes me feel like a useless Mum, I can’t see how that’s going to help the situation. There’s a lot of emphasis on how the ‘Babywise Baby’ will be this happy gooing chubby thing that people comment on because of the sheer happiness that radiates from it (and an assumption that other babies will be pale grey little waifs?).

That said, just because I disliked the tone of the book, that doesn’t mean the content is rubbish. However, I wasn’t overly fussed on that either. I found it didn’t offer a lot of help for people whose babies didn’t buckle under and fit the routines they recommend. For example, they talk about the fact that a baby might cry for as long as 20 minutes... Jacob would keep it up for hours, honestly. I think I said a bit more in a post somewhere in this forum about my thoughts on the book recently, someone had asked what people thought of the book.

I agree that I probably wouldn’t leave Maddy to cry too long at her age. She’s still so new and getting used to the world. I’d just do whatever it takes to get her to sleep – a ride in the pram, or a cuddle or whatever, but keep trying to lay her down first, in the hopes that she’ll go by herself.

In saying both of the things above – that I don’t like the BabyWise book, and that I reckon Maddy’s probably a bit young to leave crying for too long – I really don’t have an issue with letting babies cry a bit. I have noticed that the Oh Baby community (which is made up of wonderful people who are great Mums, don’t get me wrong) seems to be as a rule really anti it. In fact, I’m very nervous to say that I don’t have much of an issue with it, because I know I’ll get slammed. But to me it seems like another tool to use. I don’t believe babies cry to manipulate us, but the truth is that we do know better than them sometimes. They feel miserable and want a cuddle – we know really they’re dead tired and need to go to sleep. If letting them cry a little while is going to get to that end faster, I’m all for it. Unlike the article you quoted, Pudgy, I’m very unconvinced it does any brain damage. The only evidence for that I’ve seen is, IMO, very very tenuous. I have no issue with people using it as a tool to help get Bubs to sleep.

As a disclaimer to that, I don’t think it’s the answer to everything. It just plain doesn’t work for Jacob – he will keep howling and howling, to the point where he’d spend more time crying than he was awake! That doesn’t feel right for me, so I’m trying other methods. But for lots of Mums I know, it’s a matter of 10-20 mins of crying, which reduces quickly as Bubs learns that being put in bed means going to sleep. I genuinely don’t have any issue with that. But I got really diverted there, sorry – off the soap box, and back to Maddy’s sleep!

I know you said she doesn’t like dummies – have you tried more than one brand? I only ask because we assumed the same thing about Jacob, but when we took him to the family centre, they tried him with the Nuk ones, and he took them when he hadn’t taken the others. (If you want to try her on one of our original ones, in case Maddy likes them, just give me a yell and I’ll post one, they’re no use to us!) We found the dummy a lifesaver in getting him down, as you know.

What we’re trying at the moment with Jacob (as I said above, CIO doesn’t really work for us!) might be a help to you if you’re interested. It’s based on a book I got out of the library (can’t remember the name now, but it wasn’t one of the well-known ones, just a generic baby book). We settle him down, pop his dummy in, turn his fish toy (white noise) on, and leave him. If he doesn’t go to sleep and starts crying, I’ll pop in, rub his back, tap his dummy etc until he quietens down and goes quiet again. Then I’ll leave. If he cries again, we repeat. I keep that up for half an hour or 40 mins – if by that point he hasn’t gone to sleep I get him up and have a quiet cuddle, or give him a cool bath. As soon as he starts grizzling again, I put him back in bed and try again. That *touch wood* has been working pretty well the last couple of days. But as you know very well (!) Jacob’s sleep is fairly consistently dreadful, so I would take any advice I give with a grain of salt, I obviously have something not quite right myself!!!

I have to go – this is an essay as it is, and Jacob has got tired of his bouncer and wants some attention . But I hope that was a little bit of help.

ETA (typing one-handed!) that I just got the BabyWise book off the library pile, and checked it - even they don't reccommend letting them cry it out before eight weeks, so I think it's pretty safe to assume that even the stricter side of the coin would think Maddy's probably a bit young for it.

Edited by Hopes

Yea, totally agree about the age thing

Edited by Hopes

We found we went with the approach, anything goes to get her to sleep, with the odd putting down while awake and drowsy when SHE was in a good mood. At 3 - 3 1/2 mths we started installing a night time routine, and an actual bedtime, pajamas etc. And actually having more set (approximate) times for naps during the day.

I did read up a bit and basically, babies don't have the physical memory capabilities to make bad routines/associations with sleep in the first 4 months.
They just want Mummy and Daddy to cuddle them lots and make everything seem safe.

Just another totally agreeing with all of the above.

My motto over the past few months has been "go with the flow". I fed to sleep, rocked to sleep, swaddled, shhed...and I preferred not to let him cry. To me if he was crying it was my job to work out what the issue was and do my best to meet his needs.
I think the best thing you can do is watch your baby and as soon as you see a tired sign, closed fists, yawning, not making eye contact, jerky movements, get her into bed, or feed and put to bed...whatever works and gets her to sleep. It's usually only about an hour of awake time at that age. It's much harder to settle an overstimulated or overtired baby. There's also nothing that says because you feed to sleep or rock to sleep that the child is going to have negative sleep associations and require this forever.

At the end of the day you are this child's mother and if you want to have a cuddle and let your child sleep with you, you can! (or feed to sleep, or use moisturiser etc). I keep reminding myself of this often. You're the Mum, have faith that you know what is right for YOUR baby and try not to listen to what everyone else thinks is the right thing to do. Deal with issues that arise when and if they do.

Only now am I a little more vigilant (although not much) at 3 months ensuring that he knows how to self settle by putting him to bed drowsy but awake. We also have a proper night time routine, but still feed or rock to sleep if need be. Sleep is more important than how they got there IMO.

We also have the Natures Sway hammock which he used for all sleeps until he was about 2.5mths old when he started having day sleeps in his cot. I swear by the hammock...you can give it a little jiggle if you need to without being seen and they can settle themselves. DS is still having night sleeps in the hammock and will until 4mths old...or whenever I decide he should go into his cot at night...cos I'm his Mum!!

And FINALLY I loved having cuddles and sleeping with my wee boy when he was little. I know everyone says they're only little for such a short time but it is so so true!! I already feel that my little baby is a very distant memory...make the most of those newborn cuddles, the smell, cute noises and facial expressions, lots of kisses, and just how little and lovely she is. Those are the important things that you'll remember as she gets older...

Edited by Mealz79

Thanks for providing that link to the thread, maybe I am stressing too much about it. I've heard of the 4th trimester thing, I've definately decided we are not trying the cry it out method and DH agrees after reading out some of that information that you provided Flissty. I think there is too much pressure on us when our babies don't seem to settle or that you are doing the wrong thing. So I can going to definately go with the flow and if she wants to go to sleep in my arms well so what.

Glad you got some good advice here asicsgal. As the others say do what works at this age. It's usually after about 4 months that you can start to try and fix a few things. To avoid habits in the first place tried to vary what i did with my crap sleeping DS2, so he wasn't addicted to any one thing. So in the morn we might get nap in pram, then in sling, then rocking in bassinet, feed to sleep etc etc.

I think it's great to try and have your baby in some sort of a routine sleepwise and i think they really need lots of naps at this age, so i did whatever to get those regular sleeps. By routine what i mean is the attempting the feed/play/sleep cycle, watching for babies cues after about 45 mins and at this age getting to know their cries and signs etc.

My DS2 is a great sleeper now, but not without some tears along the way. He will NOT go sleep without a bit of a cry (usually less than 1 min), in fact his sleeps got heaps easier when i stopped all the shh/patt/rocking etc and figured out that the shortest wind down imaginable is best. Just dump him in there and get out basically.   That was around 4 months i think.

hopes - i'm a cio'er too. Have done it and would do it again if need to, it's worth it to have a baby who sleeps through every night and wakes up to a happy well rested, loving mummy. It def has a place to try and sort out some sleep issues quickly, but not at this age.