Kelly- that show was very disturbing  

Ban junk food? Hmmm don't get me started lol  but hey if you wanna see something REALLY funny about McD's have a squiz at the link I put up on my FB profile...its hilarious, even to me (and I *hate* Maccas with a vengence....)

LR- yeah he's a philosopher and I guess an animal rights activist...however he writes on a number of very controversial ethical subjects, he has written a fantastic book called Practical Ethics and that has his take on the euthanesia (sp) debate. And Animal Liberation is the most revolting book I have ever read- in that the subject matter is hugely disturbing- . Everything he writes makes me think long and hard, that's for sure. I really reccommend him if you think you might like to be challenged (which I def was and I"m pretty liberal!)  

C&J- you're so right about abusers  Yeah it's totally OT but maybe deserves another thread of it's own..... (hint hint  )

Ooohhh LR ask me about feminism, vaccinations and vegetarianism   

Kelly- I agree with what you said in the above post...I hate this whole 'everyone has to be a winner thing' or 'everyone gets a present cos otherwise they'll feel left out of so-and-so's birthday'  THAT to me is PC gone mad!

I also didn't actually know Miss Universe was on until this thread started cos its not on my radar...and part of why it's not on my radar (apart from not being a telly watcher) is that I don't care about it, I think it's crap and sends a general bad message out to all. But no I don't sit and analyse it (were it not for this thread I mean lol).   However, cos we were asked for our thoughts on it, I *did* sit on my ass and think about it and came up with the whys of why I feel about it. Same as the ginga thread.....lets not go there again

Guess what I'm trying to say is probably lots of us feel quite strongly about different topics but don't put alot of daily thought into it until asked...and then its interesting to see what we think!

Um but no, given all the other subjects I am PASSIONATE about, Miss Universe is a smallish blip hehe

Little_Red wrote: I choose my battles wisely in life and I often speak out for or against important societal issues but to me this isn't one of them. Happy.

Do you? I'd be *so* curious to know what social issues you deem important. I bet we'd have a good chat hehe   I just assumed this was important to you seeing as you started the debate (kinda like the ginga one...hehe)

oooh this has gotten good! lol

I agree with everything you say Delli. So not much point adding anything else....

Yes, the world has gotten a little PC but is that a bad thing? Women have been repressed and censored for years, so surely anything that helps stop this from happenign is good?  If you enjoy watching Miss Universe for the mindless drivel it is then so be it,  but IMO the fact that it is 'still' around after all these years indicates to me that not enough women (such as yourself LR) are truely valuing themselves or their peers above what programmes/contests dictate for them.

Sad.

Delli wrote: MummyFreckle wrote: I am not sure if this has already been referenced but again an example of beauty pagents being ONLY about image.... Kiwi girl Actually, it's not just about image (at least not just physical image - which I assume you were talking about? If not, sorry ). She would have won the crown based on the outdated sexist criteria that I have referred to in previous posts and was expected to maintain that "proper ladylike" image (as well as her physical image). She dyed her hair and expressed improper attitude and manners according to the organisers - they did not fit with their mold. So, it is about more than just physical appearance and beauty (and in the end it goes much deeper than hair).

Absolutley Delli - sorry I meant "image" in an overall sense - not just physical. The fact that she needed to conform to "appropriate" manners and ladylike behaviour and that these standards seems archaic to me....it just rubs me up the wrong way something chronic. 

*LIKE* Delli

I am not sure if this has already been referenced but again an example of beauty pagents being ONLY about image....

Kiwi girl

LR - would you rather people didn't complain?  Just cause something has always been doesn't make it right.

Throwing christians to lions used to be considered entertainment, that's no longer accepted. Does that make it PC!

jazzy wrote: caliandjack is only giving her opinions like everyone else..

My opinions are as useful and pointless as any other.

My main reason for not liking Beauty pageants, is cause they portray a fake version of  beauty. The whole thing is controlled and managed by the organisers to portray women in a particular manner. The same countries make the finals every year not cause they're beautiful but because their supporters are enfluencing the judges.

To say these women are not being exploited because they choose to enter, is misleading. They are being exploited by the organisation and those that are making money from their images. With everything available on the internet there will be plenty of perverts getting their jollies off on the contestants in their bikinis.

 gee thanks, I wasn't getting at anyone personally. If people have felt that then I'm sorry.
I wasn't saying that 14 is normal I said it is the national average which it is.

I was merely pointing out the Miss Universe only judges contestants on one particular type of beauty.
Isn't it preferable that all women feel beautiful regardless of their shape and size?

If the images in magazines, media and beauty pageants only show one type of beauty, then how are those that don't fit that type supposed to not feel judged?

Quite frankly sometimes I wish people would keep their opinions to themselves.  May as well wish the sky was pink polka dotts.

Thats it though isn't it, no matter what size or shape we are there will always be someone somewhere who has an opinion on it. It is how we deal with those opinions/comments that shape who we are.

Whether beauty pageants exist or not those comments will forever continue.

You may not have experience negative comments for being bigger, I certainly have.
Weight seems to be one of those topics everyone has opinion on, whether you lose it or gain it.
That's why I've had a change of attitude with my own daughter on the way, of all the things I want to her achieve in her life, there are far more important things than maintaining a healthy weight or having a great body. Loving the skins she's in is one of the best things I can teach her.

Why is it that it is seemingly ok to comment on how skinny a women is but not on how fat she is??

I have gone through my entire life with people commenting on my weight and that I need to eat more, that I must be starving myself, that I'm unhealthy etc etc.

I have never, and would never tell a larger woman that she needs to lost weight, eat less, exercise more etc etc. (even if I did think it).

This seems to be a regular thing for many ladies and these comments have only ever come from women. As Bizzy said, women are our worst enemies.

Delli wrote: TaliP - That's my main issue with the pageants. IMO they are rather sexist, as opposed to the weight/beauty issues everyone is talking about - though those are a part of it . The women are coached to be as "lady-like" and as "proper" as possible. The way they walk, talk, dress, their answers to questions and their talents are all pointed in the direction of old-fashioned stereotypical "womenly" values. Strong opinions on Q&A topics, talents that are not considered "proper" for a woman are all discouraged in the contest (you don't see many women showcasing their martial arts or rifle shooting talents ). So, my dislike for them stems from a feminist point of view - the least of my problems with it is the use of the word "Miss"

*like*

*agree* lol

lilfatty wrote: Little_Red wrote: Ha, I get the feisty redhead too Emmecat I think the phrase would suit you both!

Thanks!  Ain't it nice to meet women with opinions?!

lilfatty wrote:   Not I .. but then again, Im not beautiful. That's in the eye of the beholder though BUT ... I have seen it happen time and time again because many of my friends are drop dead gorgy, so tend to get labelled "dumb and blonde"

Ha I get called a feisty redhead all the time..can't imagine why

lilfatty wrote: Some pg women look fat and others look pg .. it all depends on how fat they were to start with!

So totally agree with that statement. I have known some larger woman who didn't look pregnant when I knew they were. One even admitted she didn't look pregnant cos she was so big to begin with and she is very short so did just look round.

I carry my weight around my tummy too Booboo, being pregnant has made me love my belly a lot more.  I'm pretty certain my body will like a train wreck afterwards I don't care having my little girl will be worth the sacrifice.

My preggy belly looks miles different from how it did when it was just a fat one. There's no comparission.